cs joseph responds
Hey guys. In this video I’ll be answering the question, what would a relationship between an IFP and an ESTJ look like? But before I do that, I need you to like make sure you’re subscribed to the channel and also if you hit the alert bell so that you get notifications whenever we go live, or when we’re posting additional videos, that would be fantastic. That being said, welcome to CS Joseph Responds. I’m your host, Chase, here to answer your questions, Jungian Analytical Psychology or the four sides of the mind as well as four sides dynamics because that’s what we call it. And again, today’s question is what would a relationship between an INFP and an ESTJ look like? The source of today’s question is none other than Quora and I’d also like to thank my wife for finding this pretty fun question. So, let’s get down to it. First thing’s first, we’re going to look at Daisy Taylor who studied restoration and she says that she’s a 20 year old female, at least on September 23rd, 2018, and she says quote, “This is a personal experience and probably won’t apply to most relationships but I’ll try to take the MBTI stereotypes into account.” I mean, like, why is that necessary? Like literally, why is that necessary? “The friend dearest to me is an ESTJ girl.” How does she know that? Like, how does anyone know this? “Our relationship developed slowly and oh boy, it was an emotional rollercoaster for both of us before we could settle down. We faced a lot of tension and drama in the first few years.” Is she a lesbian? “Partly because we both had romantic feelings for each other.” Okay, fair enough. “And partly because we were complete opposites in handling the situation.” Maybe. “I was the one confessing to her, although I forgot when and how. I was always very open about my feelings towards her.” Okay, yeah, because you sound like an Fi/Te user and she she actually sounds more like an ESTP and not actually an ESTJ, but that’s a whole nother story. “I would jokingly and very awkwardly flirt with her whenever I had the chance because I loved to provoke her just to catch her attention.” Wait a minute, maybe you’re the SE user? “I would openly compliment her body too and I had to learn the way how to develop, keep the PDA low. From her side, it was a complete denial at first. She didn’t want to admit her bisexuality to herself until recently.” Okay. Or maybe she didn’t have a choice? Or maybe she just really wanted to be wanted by somebody finally. Maybe she’s not actually bisexual as much as people claim they are. I don’t think they actually really understand these labels as much as people claim. Just saying. “She found this part of our friendship an embarrassment because she had strict values and wanted to meet the expectations of others.” That sounds pretty affiliative. So yeah a good chance she’s actually an ESTJ. “She opened up later and found out that she enjoys flirting with me as well in her dominating ways that I completely don’t mind.” Okay, well, maybe she’s not an ESTJ, maybe more of like an ESTP, because they do that, but who knows? “We had serious trust issues in the beginning, she didn’t trust me because I could’ve crossed the line easily and I didn’t trust her because she could’ve turned cold towards me anytime.” Well, okay, that doesn’t sound very ESTJ, all of a sudden turning cold at any time, because ESTJs are afraid of their own self worth and they try to be as warm as they can in certain situations for the sake of their own sympathies. They’re not very empathetic, so that’s kind of why they end up getting the label cold when in reality, they shouldn’t but, okay, fair enough. “I never busted her lies because I wanted to give her the space she needed.” Okay, there’s no way that this is describing an ESTJ INFP relationship at all. Like I give up. I’m moving onto somebody else. This is not working. Alex Sang, he’s an INFP high schooler from July 19th, 2018. Awesome. I can’t tell you what the relationship will look like romantically. Then why are you answering this question? But I could describe it in terms of friendship. Okay. One of my closest friends is an ESTJ, I’ve known her for about seven, eight years, I’d say pretty hard to get along without any common interest but if both sides are able to communicate, while understand each other enough, then they can get along just fine. To me, my ESTJ is kind of like a mom figure. Okay, this is sounding accurate. She always is the one to keep me in check if I’m lazing off or procrastinating anything important. This is getting real. She’s very straightforward and can get a bit bossy at times. Okay, fair. But that’s usually them caring for you. Also very fair. Generally, I think INFPs will be drawn to them by the ESTJ’s charisma and determination, whereas the latter would be drawn by the quirky, warm, emotional side of an INFP. Guys, no, that’s not accurate, but okay. On the other hand, if you’re not close with an ESTJ, you could feel easily intimidated by their presence. Sometimes they may say something insensitive but they usually don’t have any ill intentions. That’s usually true actually. In the end though, it really comes down to how much both sides understand each other and their ability to communicate. That’s true. All right, thank you Alex Sang for having the only sane response to this question so far. Let’s continue. Derrick Lee, Boo CEO, the personality dating app at Boo.dating. Interesting. It’s actually… He answered this on Thursday. Oh, this is very recent. It’s actually a frequently occurring pairing for natural reasons, they are both at what each other are not and that’s very attractive. Okay, no, this guy is obviously like supporting socionics duality and let me tell you something, folks, socionics duality is an absolute lie. To the ESTJ, the INFP is the embodiment of innocent optimism and someone who’s touched with their feelings. To the INFP, the ESTJ is the confident, assured, decisive leader. No. ESTJs decisive leaders? I’m sorry, they have NI trickster, they don’t actually know what they want. It sounds like this guy is actually describing an ESTP which is the bronze pair for an INFP, which would be the most common marriage and also most successful relationships statistically amongst people. Now, granted, I maintain there’s higher compatibilities with golden and silver pair relationships, but for some reason, people choose bronze relationships more so. The reason for that is is that they have a tendency to be able to hide a little bit more whereas you can’t hide as much in a gold or a silver pair. They have really high highs and really low lows in comparison to a bronze, where a bronze pair is a little bit more balanced, etc, in terms of like a mutual love and respect for people’s domains within that relationship. He goes on. However, these are very different personality types and they often have different views on a lot of things, like communication styles and principals versus rationality. What may have been really attractive in the beginning will prove more difficult as both of you begin to compromise in order to understand and appreciate there’s differences. Very well said. It’s a pairing with relatively higher divorce rate. Yeah. So, we don’t recommend it on Boo because we think this attraction dynamic can be made with more similar types, having the best of both complimentary personas and shared values. Okay. You make a good point. But stay away from socionics, please. Spent a little bit too much time on the answers, so now I give my answer, the CSJ answer to what would a relationship between an INFP and an ESTJ look like? Let me tell you, absolute total hell. This relationship is terrible. You do not want to have this relationship. It’s an intra quadra relationship which means these folks have the exact same cognitive functions, except in different order. So, you have two FI users here, two SI users, two TE users, two NE users. Both of them are trying to make the other person want them and both of them have a hard time wanting anything, especially the ESTJ. So, the NE parent who wants to be wanted and desired within the INFP, is trying to get the ESTJ to desire them but then the ESTJ has NI trickster and is not able to meet that need whatsoever. As a result, it’s absolutely terrible. Not only that. So, that makes the sexual compatibility terrible but the emotional compatibility is even just as terrible. Why? Well, because each of them is all about, well, my values, not shared values. Each of them is all about what everyone else is thinking and it just becomes a conversation with, okay, who can find the better source before we make a decision? Who can do the better research before we can make a decision? Oftentimes, they actually put each other’s status over the other because both of them are status seeking, the INFP is super status seeking whereas the ESTJ’s more of like trying to seek a higher philosophy, moral principals, etc, but they end up judging each other. They end up judging the other person as either weak or ineffective or you don’t want me or you don’t think that I’m competent or you don’t think really highly of me and they’re both accusing each other of this over time consistently. So, when socionics duality comes into play, oftentimes people mistake duality for bronze pair relationships and it just blows up in everyone’s face. In this case, especially sex in the bedroom, what an absolute waste of time. Both of them are trying to get the other person to initiate with them and that’s just not going to happen. There’s just no initiating thing going on there. So, basically, we’re already looking at a sexless relationship for the most part, because they have to cognitive transition and that can cause the brain stress to actually have a sexual relationship. So, sex is all about relieving stress, right? No, in this case, actually it’s very stressful and it won’t actually be fulfilling whatsoever and as a result, these two types just grow apart, grow apart, grow apart, grow apart, grow apart. Typically, people get into duality relationships like this when it’s like their very first time and it’s like literally marrying the first person you have sex with essentially and that’s usually how these kinds of relationships last or they go on 10 years before they actually end up getting a divorce which is what they should’ve done. Oh wait, they shouldn’t have even got married to begin with. The reason why is is because they’re both SI users and the sexual experience that these two people have, it’s only like those two people. They really don’t know why. I also with my coaching practice end up coaching ISTJs and ENFPs and they end up having these same exact problems as INFPs and ESTJs do. The exact same compatibility issues. No sexual compatibility, no emotional compatibility and eventually, it just leads to cheating. In fact, statistically, it’s the INFP that will cheat first because they have the vice of treachery, INFPs are technically the most treacherous of all the types, but they’re also the most loyal of all the types because they oscillate between those two extremes within virtue and vice, etc. So, as a result, the INFP eventually will just start trading up and then abandon the ESTJ entirely. ESTJ may hold out and be a little bit more loyal to the INFP over time, but that’s usually not the case. I actually grew up with a couple that I went to church with and he was an INFP, she was an ESTJ, she was his first sexual experience. The thing is is that he didn’t know that she was having like an extra relationship on the side that ended up being like her first son, but she didn’t tell him and he didn’t realize that his first born was not actually his kid. It was disastrous these two. But to this day, I don’t think their son actually knows the truth about that, but the point is is that this relationship is devastating and needs to be avoided at all costs. Do not do it. It’s horrible. If you want to find out more about why that is, watch season five playlist on my other YouTube channel or watch the videos on the golden pairs as well as pedagogue relationships, the romantic compatibility series I have at season 14 is available at CSJoseph.life/members. Anyway, if you’d like a chance at your question being answered on this channel, please post it below as a comment or go on Quora and tag me. If you want a guaranteed answer for your question, become a silver member at CSJoseph.life/members. It’s like $5 a month. The price of that’s going to go up soon, so might want to get in on that and I think we’re looking at people getting grandfathered in for the lower price before we do the price change. And post your question on the private Q and A Discord channel and I answer all those questions each month on a private livestream for silver members. Anyway, with that being said, I’ll see you guys tonight.