Season 7, Episode 16 Transcript


Chase: 00:02 Hey guys, its CS Joseph with doing the final episode on our series, virtue and vice. Season seven, episode 16 for the podcast, and the 16th video for this playlist on YouTube. So this is the third most requested video out of the list. I was asked to produce a video for the INFP virtue and vice multiple times before we were [we were] even halfway done with… this playlist. So that’s cool, I like it, so let’s just do a deep dive right into the virtue and vice. So the virtue and vice of the INFP: the dreamer type, informative, responding, control, behind-the-scenes. {There goes that wind again, our favorite counterpart here when we’re filming. Absolutely. It’s, like, the absolute best thing to have here as a backdrop. You know what I mean}? So, also the idealist intuitive feeling temperament for INFPs. The virtue and vice of the INFP, well, where does it come from and how did I learn it? I learned it from actually a collection of INFPs over time. The first one I learned [it] learned about it was when I was in the Sacramento politics and philosophy group, actually, before it broke up and became multiple factions, etc; and I met an INFP girl there, and we started becoming pen pals of sorts over a period of like four months, et cetera.

Chase: 02:02 So it was very interesting to see the virtue and vice manifest as a result of that interaction, and there are a few other interactions. Some INFPs at work for example I’ve met and… but nothing from, like, romantic relationships, etc. But be that as it may, the virtue and vice is very compelling, and I will admit that ENFPs definitely have this virtue and vice, but it’s just not their primary. They do the same thing and… but again, charity versus depravity is their main thing, but INFPs also have charity versus depravity as one of their secondary, tertiary virtues and vice, et cetera. If you notice you can actually attach the virtue and vice to each [to each] type. Each type represents four cognitive functions, so if you were to put them all out in a grid, right, you would note that… You would see that they all have their own virtue and vice attached to them, right, and if you take one of those types and create the… place the four sides of their mind, their ego, subconscious, superego, et cetera, you’ll note all the different virtues and vices that [that] type actually has to keep track of.

Chase: 03:34 So that’s kind of the difference in that regard, [spits] but it’s also similarities as well because you have NFPs, NFJs, SFJs, SFPs, STJs. There’s a lot of similarities across the board on top of just the four sides of their mind. So you can get into primaries, secondaries, tertiaries, and it just keeps building out from there. Anyway, so what is the virtue and vice of the INFP? It is loyalty versus connivery, or being conniving, treacherous, treachery. So loyalty versus treachery. Now INFPs watching this are like, “No! How can you think that I am a good person? I am not a traitor. I am not treacherous,” Yeah [laughing], I mean, sure, to be fair, I’ve been betrayed by many INFPs. I mean, they literally coined the statement, “Oh, I thought I fell in love with you, but I actually fell in love with the idea of you and that idea is not here anymore. So I’m just going to move on. I’m not comfortable with this anymore” you know what I mean? Of course ENFPs do that too, but not as much as INFPs believe it or not, at least ENFPs that are able to get into relationships. It’s more commonly said amongst INFP women than it is INFP men though, at least in our First World culture. Not a bad thing, just what happens, right? So loyalty versus treachery.

Chase: 05:22 So loyalty. INFPs are insanely loyal. In fact [the] most loyal of all the types to the point where they will follow you over a cliff even after you leave them, for example a couple at church that I knew a long, long time ago. [It] was an INFP and [it] ended up with an ESTJ woman. So it was a duality relationship according to socionics, and… which I don’t recommend in the least, by the way. Duality: “Ooh, let’s just join polar opposites of each other,” right? You know [and] everyone’s trying to figure out who’s on top in the bedroom. I mean, when you have an ESWTJ and an INFP the INFP is just laying there like, “Well, I mean, are you going to start, or, or am I going to start?” What’s going to happen here, you know? The INFP, like, has no basis with which to give sensation with because Se trickster, right? So then the ESTJ ends up having to have that responsibility.

Chase: 06:25 Well, imagine if it’s an INFP male with an ESTJ female. That’s even additional complication there, right? Not very good sexual compatibility if you know what I mean. Anyway, the bottom line is that over time this relationship fell apart. The ESTJ met someone on World of Warcraft, that’s the ESTJ woman, and he actually flew out to meet her and left. Left the INFP guy. This has been, like, seven years ago, eight years ago now, just about, and this INFP guy still to this day refuses to get in a relationship with somebody else because for some reason he has faith that she’s going to come back to him. Still to this day, even though she’s basically remarried and potentially having additional children with this guy, or has already. I haven’t checked up on them in a long time, right? [And] but for some reason the INFP thinks, “You know, I’m still loyal and I demonstrate my loyalty so she’ll come back to me.” No, but loyal to a fault. INFPs are super loyal, and they’re not just loyal to people, right?

Chase: 07:44 They’re loyal to ideas. They’re loyal to ways of thinking, right, and that can be a problem. This is why when you encounter an INFP and you give them some information about something that they may disagree with, right? Like say you’re at a… So let’s go back to that girl I met [that] INFP girl I met at the Sacramento politics and philosophy group. Amazing group by the way, I met some really awesome intellectual and academic people. They’re absolutely fantastic. I recommend it if you’re in the area, if they’re still around that is. I might start an additional one for the Bay Area. We’ll see, but regardless, I provided an idea to the group. We were talking about quantum mechanics at the time, and the INFP girl that I was sitting next to, before we became pen pals, challenged me, and she’s like, “Well, cite your sources. What’s your reference material, you know? Who else out there agrees with you?” right? It’s because she’s so loyal to the idea that, you know, her idea that quantum mechanics was not the way in which I was describing, right.? I was describing extraverted intuition actually as a form of metaphysical awareness. She had never heard that before so she automatically disagreed with me, right? ‘Cite your sources’ because she’s so loyal to the norm. So loyal to preexisting ideas, or to ideas that other people have established. Established ideas, right? So that’s kind of how she approaches it in that regard, and it’s like, “Well… I can’t exactly cite a theory on quantum mechanics,” right? So she’s quick to dismiss it entirely.

Chase: 09:41 Well, that puts an INFP academic at risk of their basing their educational decisions, right; or changing their mind, right, based on the collective because if the collective doesn’t agree with it then it can’t be relevant and it can’t be valid, right? So they are super loyal to ideas, and the reason for this is because of Te inferior. Te inferior, the way it works is that it’s very insecure about what other people think. It’s also insecure of new ideas. Why is that? It’s because Si child is comfortable with its own… with the INFPs own personal philosophy: comfortable with their own personal stake in things; how they feel about certain ideas; how they feel about truth; because let’s be honest, INFPs don’t necessarily care about what’s true. They care about what people believe because to an INFP it’s about… similarly with the ENFP in the absence of communication or explanation perceptions become reality. So it really is all about managing people’s beliefs, right? They’ll have to continue to manage their own beliefs and manage the beliefs of others if they accept new ideas. It causes mental stress because it forces them into their shadow because their shadow, ENFJ shadow, is where their Ti function is. The problem is it’s their bottom functions so it’s extremely stressful. So they can’t just accept new ideas willy-nilly. They can’t accept ideas just right off the bat. They need evidence, right, because they have to feel good about the idea, and if they already feel good about an idea and they’re already loyal to an idea they’re not going to let that idea go, right? Because of that there’s a lot of complications, right? There’s not much you could do about it.

Chase: 11:35 “Cite your sources.” Going to get anywhere with an [with an] INFP you got to cite your sources because they are super loyal to those ideas. In the same way that they’re super loyal to people, right? Loyalty to a fault. You could also argue that INTPs do this as well. Yeah. Loyalty versus treachery. They definitely have that virtue and vice, but it’s not primary to them and also it’s very rare that I ever hear about an INTP actually betraying anyone. It’s extremely rare. It is usually after they’ve been abused for decades in most cases. “If I’m going to do the time, I may as well do the crime,” right, [spits] but not with INFPs. They will, [they], they will go over the cliff following you in a lot of cases as long as you have made them comfortable. As long as you make them feel good, especially the idea of you. If they’re in love with the idea of you and what you mean in that regard they’ll follow you over the cliff, and there is a risk that they could be a lamb led to the slaughter. Which a lot of INFP men, they have a problem with that because women in our culture lose respect for men like that because it’s like, “Well, have some self-respect. If you’re really that loyal to me you wouldn’t be treating me this way,” you know what I mean? So they can’t do that, right? So men have to learn. INFP men especially have to learn to have self-,respect. It’s very important. So self-respect goes a long way, and they have to be able to meet their own needs; they have to have their personal standards to which they have disciplined with their Si child to force themselves to meet their own needs; and then they have to create personal boundaries, but it’s hard for INFPs to enforce personal boundaries because they worry about how other people feel about them. “And then I’m not, I’m not… being benevolent enough. I’m not being good enough if I’m, if I’m challenging people this way,” and that’s a problem, right?

Chase: 13:43 So the INFP ends up having a difficult time enforcing boundaries because they’re afraid of the conflict that comes as a result of, or worried, about the conflict that comes as a result of enforcing those boundaries, right? So there is an aspect of being a doormat in that regard, which is kind of interesting because in our feminist society a lot of INFP women that I talk to, they’re like, “You know, I’ll never be labeled a housewife. That’s so low of me as a woman,” you know, and they have this, like, prideful point of view about it, you know what I mean? And it’s like, “Okay, sure, you don’t want to be a housewife. Okay,” you know. Don’t have children then, or find some rich guy who has a butler or can afford a maid, I guess. I don’t know. I mean, is that really reality? Oh, but they’re special, right? INFPs are special, and because they’re special they need to be treated special, right? Well a lot of NFPs feel special and that [laughing] allows them what they believe special privileges in some cases. I’ve seen it, I’ve seen it with INFPs, I’ve seen it with ENFPs. I’ve seen it more so with ENFPs because depravity, right? That’s their vice. So, [inhales] so, again, INFP loyalty goes a long way. They are super mega loyal and being as how loyal they are, and I would say INTPs arguably are just as loyal, but really INFPs are; but INPs [both of them] Si child is super, super mega loyal, and this is why INJs, Se inferiors, and ENJs – Se children, Se child, really loves Si child, because, “Wow, this person will never abandon me. This person will never leave me. This person will always be there for me.” They always have that situation because, like, “I’ve made this person so comfortable, this Si child so comfortable to be with me,” and whatnot. Then they’re like, “Oh yeah, sure, fine. Let’s have a relationship,” you know what I mean? So based on that they’re able to have a relationship because they’re getting that, those Se users are getting that loyalty that they need, right?

Chase: 16:02 Well, it’s not that easy. It’s really not that easy. Why? Well, because of the vice of treachery. Connivery, conniving. So let me give you an example of INFP conniving. I had an INFP one time in a business deal. A business deal went really well, he got what he needed in this situation- by the way INFPs can be fantastic financier’s and Forex traders. If you spend time researching that you’re extraverted intuition parent can actually predict markets really well, and you can be a fantastic day trader. If you haven’t looked into that I recommend it. It takes a lot of time and research and energy and countless hours, but you can reach a level of mastery pretty easily which makes you super rational, and you can make really good financial decisions in the market on a daily basis that could land you some good money. A lot of people don’t know that about INFPs, but they have that capability. When it comes to money management, “Whoo,” I’ve noticed some really good ones, and of course I’d recommend an ISTJ to do this, but INFPs, they can really get some windfall profits if they know how to put themselves in that direction. It’s kind of why I believe Warren Buffet is an INFP even though I haven’t really taken the time to look at him, but if I was going to have a working theory on Warren Buffet I’d say, yeah, he’s an INFP. At least for now until proven otherwise. [so]

Chase: 17:27 So let’s, let’s talk about treachery. So… he, he had a deal and it went really well, but he didn’t feel good about it. He didn’t feel good about the deal, so any additional deals later with this other individual that this INFP was dealing with, he decided to not go forward with them, or at least he decided to make the deal more in his favor, right; and then when the other party negatively reacted to that, even though they had their terms right down and everything, it was, it was a problem, right? So what the INFP financier did instead was just be like, “Well, fine, you know, you can have it this way. I’m not going to do this anymore,” and walked out of all of their deals. Even had a real estate deal, completely walked out, the guy got screwed, right? So that ended up becoming a problem. Got even worse. It got to a point where that I was actually hiring people to get dirt on the other guy and then, you know, and then expose him and potentially blackmail him; and this other guy, he was a, he was a… What type was he? I think he was an ISTP. No, no, he was an ENFJ actually. He’s an ENFJ… but yeah, this ENFJ guy, he ended up getting his reputation hit pretty hard all because of this, and it just caused a lot of additional problems, you know, for these two people. [It’s] not much that they could do about it, but I mean the INFP had the finances, he was able to do it. Completely betrayed the guy, you know, because he’s felt like, “Well, you know, you try to mess me over so I’m gonna try to mess you over.” Direct quote. It’s kind of revenge-ish, you know. Justice, right? When the guy never actually intentionally intended to harm him, and they had everything written down in the agreement; but apparently it was an argument over the fine print from a business standpoint, right?

Chase: 19:41 Well, here’s another thing, like, it really comes to perceptions. It’s just misperceptions that lead[s] to the disloyalty, you know. It’s like, “I fell, I fell in love with an idea of you. I didn’t really fall in love with you,” right? It’s like, it’s very treacherous. It’s like, “Wow. So you mean to tell me that you weren’t actually in love with me this entire time, and you weren’t actually in a relationship with me just for me, but you were just in love with the idea of me?” you know. That’s, like, very, like, very groupie-esque, you know what I mean? The rock star gets in a relationship with the INFP, and then all of a sudden the rock star, like, has nothing left, and the INFP is like, “I don’t feel good about this anymore. I’m just going to move on,” and they do, and the rock star is left with nothing. Not only has he lost all his money, but, you know, the girl walked off too, right? And that’s why in a lot of cases INFP, [laughing] and ENFP women, but INFP women especially in this area, end up having that whole, you know, groupie label attached to them, right? And it continues in that just, you know, that’s attached to their reputation, right?

Chase: 20:46 “Oh no. Mr. Joseph, there’s no way that’s true. I don’t do that.” Yes, that’s fine. I’m sure you don’t do that. You’re probably a very mature INFP and would never be star struck in your whole life. NFPs, especially INFPs, they can be star struck. I’ve watched many INFPs, even men in some cases, paying attention to celebrities, being on Instagram all the time, you know. Spending so much time on the phone keeping up with celebrities and whatnot because Te inferior is all about that status. They see [they], they feed off the status of others and [they] because they want to gain status for themselves, you know, and they’re even okay with having the illusion of status in some cases depending on how mature they are, right? But that illusion is still, it’s still an illusion, and they’re even willing to betray people in some cases to keep up the illusion. Betray certain relationships, even [even] certain financial commitments or financial decisions just for the sake of keeping up that illusion. That’s not cool.

Chase: 21:56 It really comes down to whether or not the INFP feels comfortable and feels good about their relationship or the situation that they’re in, because [eventually] because their heart has to be in it. That’s the point, and in the same way that an ISFP has to have their heart in something in order for them to be diligent instead of just being completely idle and drag their feet on something. If an INFP does not have their heart in an idea, does not have their heart in a relationship [cough, spit] they will start to exhibit treacherous behavior. Like for example an ESTP who’s married to an INFP and, [the], the ESTP is working pretty hard. Ends up getting two jobs, technically three, and the INFP doesn’t have a job and is at home not really doing very much, but the INFP feels neglected, right, and ends up starting to talk to other people on the internet, you know, to have some of that emotional connection, right; because they feel neglected because their partner is out working all the time, producing, right, which is disrespectful, right; and then it ends up creating this situation where, you know, there’s disloyalty there, and the ESTP finds out and then rages and goes Super Saiyan about it, right? That’s a problem. That’s actually more common than most people think, right?

Chase: 23:31 It’s because INFPs are committed to their ideals. They’re committed to the Dreamland that they have, and they want to have that ideal Dreamland and they want to bring that ideal Dreamland into fruition in some way, shape, or form. Even little hints of it in their daily lives, and if you’re not supportive of that Dreamland, if you’re not fitting the puzzle piece that they desire you to be, well, then they’re just going to move on. Another example, a friend of mine who had a Discord server, an INFP who was loyal to an ENTJ friend of mine who had a Discord server devoted to psychology and psychology, and all of a sudden the ENTJ… After being so loyal to this ENTJ for a year, at least, they… behind [behind] the ENTJ’s back, because apparently there was a problem or whatever or something didn’t fit the INFP’s ideal, or in terms of how the man at the server should be managed. The INFP behind the back of the ENTJ starts stealing all the people off the server, and creates their own server and then reap the benefits of that server, et cetera, you know, and the benefits of all those relationships unbeknownst to the ENTJ. The ENTJ still to this day doesn’t even know that that happened, but it was a betrayal and the ENTJ put that INFP in that position because, “Oh! Si child. They’ll be loyal to me.”

Chase: 24:59 Yeah, well ENTJs are… as much as they pride themselves for management, I’m sorry ENTJs, you’re just not that good at delegation. And he ended up stuck in the loop of, “Well, you know, if I’m going to continue to do this, you know do I, do I do it myself or do I let other people do it? Better that I do it myself,” right? That whole saying of ‘done right, do it yourself,’ right? Many ENTJs get stuck in that. This is why you have an ENTJ president right now who continues to make terrible human resources decisions on a regular basis because, I’m sorry, ENTJs can be really bad at delegation because they look at what’s on paper with the people that they’re hiring instead of actually looking at the people; but then again they don’t have time to get to know these people on the people basis, right? So they end up making these terrible decisions. Which is exactly what happened with this scenario where the INFP was kind of set up for failure, and then the ENTJ gets mad after the INFP was set up for failure; and then the INFP betrays him after being loyal for a year, right? See, I’m not calling all INFPs these treacherous people. A lot of their treachery has cause. Sometimes it doesn’t because they could be jumping to a conclusion, which does happen, but a lot of times they’re pushed away into doing it.

Chase: 26:26 Remember, never push a loyal person to the point where they no longer give a damn. The thing is [is] INFPs are so sensitive and they are so loyal, but they’re so sensitive in that way that out of all of the types that are loyal, out of all the Si users that are loyal, they’re the most easily pushed away; and they’re the most easily pushed into being treacherous, into being conniving, and plotting against you behind your back; and making moves against you behind your back because they’re so easily pushed in that direction, because they’re so sensitive. I’m sorry, but Fe demon from an ENTJ is not sensitive enough for Fi hero. So in that situation there’s a good chance that the INFP is going to become treacherous because they’re not having their emotional needs met by that particular relationship right? So that’s, that’s loyalty versus treasury. So what do you do to keep an INFP loyal to you? If you’re in a relationship with one, or if you’re working with one, what do you do? Well, it’s very simple actually. Make them feel good about themselves. Congratulate them publicly. Tell others in front of them that you think highly of them and list reasons for that.

Chase: 27:45 That’ll make them feel really good. That’ll [and] that’ll give them a good experience. That’ll engage their Si child, and that will further entangle them, and further make them loyal to you and what you’re doing at your organization or even a relationship. Praising an INFP spouse in front of their family in this way will only further earn you even more loyalty because to them praise is rare. Praise ups their status, especially among these people in their family because they may have been insecure that these people don’t think very highly of them, but you’ve just completely dashed all that insecurity because you spoke highly of them. The problem is that could backfire if you’re not careful because if you over speak [and then they], and then something bad happens then they feel like you unfairly set them up for failure, and then they will become treacherous and betray you. So that can backfire if you’re not careful. Make sure what you’re doing is balanced. Make sure what you’re doing is ethical, otherwise INFPs who are set up for failure, yeah, they’re going to go full treacherous mode straightaway. Again, ‘if I’m going to do the time, I as well do the crime,’ that’s their version. Being set up for failure, no INFP appreciates that. They’ll burn the house down with you in it, and them in it if necessary, because they’re still loyal to you, to the end, right? The bitter end.

Chase: 29:14 Make sure you keep your INFP as comfortable as possible, but if they get slothful, which they can get slothful, remember to make them uncomfortable; and if they still don’t agree with you and they’re like, “Cite your sources. Other people’s relationships are not this way,” take them to counseling. INFPs respond very well to credentialed professionals, right, because INFPs are trying to become academics. I mean, look at Robert Greene. He became an amazing academic because that ESTJ subconscious wants to be an academic. So put INFPs in front of academics that agree with you, and then the INFP will be like, “Wow, all these other people think this way. I’m must probably – I need to get my shit together.” Yeah. This is how it is for INFPs. Allow them to do this. Give them room to do this is what I mean. Take them, make the effort to take them to professionals. [it will] It will give you good information. Even if it’s a negative experience for them or you it doesn’t matter because at least you’ll know where they stand, and then they won’t feel like they’re set up for failure anymore and you might actually get even more loyalty out of them, right?

Chase: 30:22 Don’t allow them to be set up for failure. It’s like the number one rule with INFPs. Never allow them to be set up for failure; and I can say that for ENFPs as well, but it’s especially important for INFPs because of how sensitive they are, and it’s not a bad thing that they’re so sensitive. It’s actually a good thing, especially for INFJs or ENFJs. They need those sensitive people around them because those people, because the NFJs gain so much joy from how sensitive the NFPs are. They [or] especially the INFP. So much joy. So what do you do if you’re an INFP and you [ha] you believe you’ve been set up for failure; and you are concerned, you’re actually thinking about possibly betraying somebody; or cheating on someone; or moving on; or doing something bad about that person behind their back, maybe talking bad about them behind their back? If you’re in that position what do you do? Well, first things first, you have to be willing to suffer conflict. Get in your partner’s face, or your boss’s face, or whoever’s face. Tell them exactly how you feel. Tell him how the experience that you’re receiving is, like, unrealistic. Not even, not even like a good experience by any means. Tell them that you’re being set up for failure. List out rational reasons why that is the case. Really, the best way to prevent yourself from being treacherous, especially if you’re doing it on a conclusion.

Chase: 31:52 What if you perceived or misperceived that you were being set up for failure, right? That would be a problem. If you are misperceived, if you’re misperceiving this, then all of a sudden there’s a problem. So how do you do that? Well, verify. I know verifying is rough, but find out what the other person thinks. Be like, “So what do you think? Do you really think less of me that you’ve set me up for failure? Do you hate me?” Get in their face. Use that Fe Nemesis and be like, “Do you really feel this way about me? Do you think this little of me?” Get in their face. I guarantee you, especially if you’re [in] with an NFJ or an STP type in your relationship, they will listen to you; and they’ll be like, “Oh,” and then they’ll feel guilty, right; and then change will occur, and then because you communicated you’re no longer feeling like you’ve been set up for failure. Because remember, just because, INFPs, you feel that you’ve been set up for failure in whatever situation doesn’t necessarily make it true.

Chase: 32:55 You have to do your due diligence and verify. Even if you’re not in the mood because it could be that you end up betraying somebody, come to realize that, well, you didn’t have any leg to stand on to begin with. I’ve seen tons of INFPs do that much to their detriment. To the point where some INFPs have ended up in jail over that. I do not recommend that. Actually there was a situation with a former coworker who ended up taking home one of those MiFi boxes, and playing movies on it for her children on… on a conclusion that she jumped to; and when they gave her the $5,000 bill and told her, “Pay or you’re fired,” she was fired, and her poor children definitely did not have any movies for a long time. That can happen. You have to communicate. If you are at risk, if you are about to betray somebody, if you’re about to go down the treacherous road because after being so loyal for so long if you do not communicate, you are actually setting yourself up for failure and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Chase: 34:05 Do not allow this to happen. I beg you do not allow this to happen because you’ll destroy your future; and because you have Ne parent you will destroy the futures of people close to you, and it’ll be your fault; [and you’ll] and people, especially family, they will think less of you for a very long time because you didn’t communicate. I get it, INFPs. You silently judge people from a distance, but if you’re unwilling to communicate about your judgments it’s your own fault. Even if you are set up for failure, even though if that is 100 percent undeniably true, but you didn’t communicate, it is still on you. Recognize that that is your responsibility. Avoid treachery at all costs. Stay in your virtue, be loyal. Obviously you want to be loyal to the right thing, but if you’re not communicating how can you know or test whether or not you are being loyal to the right thing? Don’t allow yourself to be set up for failure, and don’t allow yourself to misperceive that you’re being set up for failure. Such is the way of loyalty versus treachery.

Chase: 35:21 Well, that’s it for tonight’s episode. If you have any questions or comments about INFPs and their virtue and vice, please leave it in the comment section, and I will answer every question because I read all the comments. If you found this video insightful, educational helpful, please leave a like and subscribe to us here on the YouTube channel as well as on the podcast. That’d be dope as well. This completes our series on virtue and vice, and our next series will be on compatibility. General compatibility of all the 16 types. I’m also going to be doing a bunch of type comparison videos on hopefully a new whiteboard that is bigger and a lot more readable. So. Sounds dope. I can’t wait. I can hardly wait anyway. So, awesome. Well, with that, I’ll see you guys tonight.

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