S7E1 – What Is The Virtue And Vice Of ESTJs? Serenity Vs. Chaos

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Chase: Hey, it’s CS Joseph with CSJoseph.life, on another windy stroll here in the Bay Area, San Francisco area of California. So, we finished a series about how compatibility works with the cognitive functions, and uh, we’re going to be going a little bit further talking about how each of the types interact with each other. I understand that there’s a lot of requests from the audience currently to do a deep dive right into the compatibility of all the types, but before we could do that and launch into that series, we have to do this series, a 16 video series on virtue and vice.

Chase: Why? Well, virtue and vice, in order for us to really understand how the types kind of cleave together and are compatible/incompatible, we have to understand a little bit more about what motivates them with their, uh, with their differences and their little intricacies that they have with each other. So one of ways to do this is to interpret their virtue and vice. So by understanding virtue and vice it gives us a different picture to kind of see how the nature o one of the 16 archetypes, according to Jung. Well no one would say it’s according to Jung, but its Jungian after all. It increases our understanding of how the types are individually, but you actually start to see how when the virtue and vice of a type comes, how that affects their nurture or the nurture that they give off to other types as result of the nature that they have, at least in terms of virtue and vice. So, so what is virtue? Virtue is a type’s ability, it’s like it’s number one trait, almost like its purpose or its best self, basically, where the best trait that can come as a result of being one of the 16 types.

Chase: A vice is the worst trait. Now a lot of the types actually share the same virtues and same vices. It’s just that some of those are secondary. Some of those are primary, right? So we’re not really going to dive into secondaries as much. I’m going to just be talking about primary vices and primary virtues on each of the 16 types. It’s just a lot of content to cover.

Chase: I probably will do secondary ones in the near future, but probably not anytime soon. There’s just a lot of material to cover. I might put that additional material maybe on a Patreon or something, but we’ll see. It’s not time to do that, still got plenty of more work to do. So virtue and vice. So tonight’s type that we’re going to be talking about with virtue and vice, because every type has a virtue and vice… primary virtue and vice, even have secondary ones, but for the sake of brevity, we’re just going to be focusing on primaries. So in the first type we’re going to be talking about is the ESTJ. Why? Well, I always start with the ESTJ because that’s the first for the in charge types. So remember ESTJs are structure based. In charge. They take charge, very leadership oriented, a D type according to the DISC system, which the DISC system has only really about interaction styles.

Chase: And that’s it. Very, uh, Behrendsian, if you ask me. So ESTJs: direct initiating control, they go at their own pace, very direct. Say what they mean, mean what they say. Can be philosophical because their INFP subconscious can actually be very crafty with their ISTP unconscious versus the, you know, the subconscious INFP. And their Super Ego is the mentor, the [ENFJ], ENFJ. So virtue and vice, what makes an ENTJ tick? What, what is their purpose? What are they trying to find? What are they seeking out of life? Basically? It’s actually very simple, uh, have you ever just taken the time and observe, but specifically ESTJs actually do. I have. What are they always trying to do? They’re trying to bring things into order, right? Thats why ESTJs make great middle management. They make great receptionists, gatekeepers because they protect the gate, right?

Chase: You don’t want any of those salespeople getting past the front desk, right? Not mean ESTJs, but you can get past an ESTJ if you put on a smiling face, give them a good experience. Good first impression. Make them feel important. Tell them you think so highly of them, right? Make them feel good, and that ESTJ will definitely be willing to give you the key to the gate, if you know what I mean? Well, at least that’s the idea, may not always be true, but why do they do this? Why? Why are they so suited for this role? Well, the answer to that is because they hate chaos. So they have to bring things into order. Serenity is their virtue, it can get very Zen. They’re actually trying to find, trying to find the Zen, trying to seek for it. They’re seeking serenity. In order to have serenity things need to be brought into order, and the ESTJ literally walks around in life, literally walks around looking at the fact that everything is so disordered. It’s kind of like if you’re going to see through their eyes outward, you can kind of get an idea that they just see the world is constantly moving and out of control. Like it’s vibrating out of control. And because of that they are just constantly bothered. Almost like from a, uh, let’s see…

Chase: I don’t want to say OCD, but that’s kind of what it seems like at times, you know, they just feel so compelled to bring order, right? Got to bring order to everything because they really want that serenity. Right? It’s interesting because, you know, when they’re put up with ISTPs or ESTPs they’re so focused on giving a good experience to somebody, the best experience, that they’ll actually help bring things into order for the ESTJs so they can have that serenity, that peace and harmony that they’re looking for. So serenity is the virtue, however the vice… because they get so focused on serenity in certain areas, actually, they can become very chaotic and uh, their vice is chaos. The point where all of the sudden their mood gets in the way and they’re just not in a mood to do anything. And then because of that, because they’re tired or whatever, everything just goes to utter chaos. Complete and utter chaos.

Chase: Or they’re surrounded in an area of chaos which they don’t have much control. Like for example, let’s say they’re in an organization and they’re… they’re working, for example, this ESTJ, and uh, but they don’t have the managerial authority to make decisions and they see chaos and it bothers them, but they don’t have that managerial authority to do anything about it. So they just throw their hands up in the air, right? And it’s like, “I’m not even going to bother,” but because they’re not bothering to do anything about it, it’s a double edge sword, you know? “Oh, awesome. I don’t have to deal with the effort, you know, or the responsibility of fixing the chaos in this work environment right now.” And then like, “Okay, cool, I’m throwing my hands up. Don’t care.” Only that leads to even more chaos actually, and it gets even more chaotic; and then they end up becoming more disenfranchised, and then they’ve lost all motivation; and then they get stuck in a rut and they don’t want to do anything. That’s the ESTJ vice: chaos.

Chase: They can actually end up creating the chaos they’re trying to avoid. It’s a very interesting concept. A lot of virtue and vice has a lot to do with self fulfilling prophecy, right? And you look at it from a Yin and Yang standpoint, you got to understand that virtue and vice is a Yin and Yang, right? And as you’re seeking one side, the other side is going to grow. It’s going to grow in some way, shape, or form, right? The ESTJ ends up finding the serenity it’s looking for. It’s the fact that it went and sought out that serenity… it’s only going to lead to even more chaos down the road for them to again bring in the order. So the ESTJs work is never done. It is never done because there’s always more chaos. ESTJs hate it when I come around, you know, an ENTP, AKA the agent of chaos, right?

Chase: And see me just introduce even more chaos to this situation, you know, for the sake of progress, because I mean why not? The ends justify the means, don’t they? So because of that, ESTJs find themselves in a situation where, “Oh crap, I should probably do something about that.” And then they ended up having a problem with me because they can’t exactly… they can’t exactly cope with the fact that I’m adding to their chaos, to the chaos, and then they just throw their hands up in the air again. It’s like, “Well, why bother? Why bother?” Which only adds to even more chaos, which pisses them off even more. And I mean their ISTP shadow will get pissed off, and then it’ll start raging over the fact that it can’t really do anything about it. So when it comes to being, you know, compatible, if you’re in a relationship with an ESTJ go out of your way to help bring that, that virtue out, that virtue of serenity, help them bring things to order. Realize that by bringing things to order you are making them more comfortable, right? You are giving them what they need. And guess what? Because you’re helping them bring things into order, they might identify chaos in your life and then actually seek to help you get that chaos organized. Like for example, helping you get your taxes done right? Or any type of legal paperwork or any business decision, they can do that right?

Chase: So it’s situations like that, serenity is everything to an ESTJ. Everything has to have its place, everything has to be orderly. An ESTJ can spot somebody a mile away who doesn’t have their shoe tied, or their tie is tied wrong, or there’s a speck of dirt on their lapel. And as vain as ESTJs get, because they get pretty vain, especially that Se critic, right? Those ESTJs will lose respect for those people who are not well kept, right? So they need that serenity and things being orderly. People being well kept is a sign of a of order, right? That’s why when you go out with an ESTJ if you’re not well kept and if you’re not real orderly, or at least not allowing them to help you become kempt, or help you become orderly, they’ll lose respect for you and they’ll have a hard time being on a date with you, for example, because they look at everybody else present and it’s like, “Wow, are those people thinking less of me because I’m not being…

Chase: Because my partner is not really serene right now?” They take their status and their reputation very seriously, and if you’re getting down on their Mojo because you’re only adding to the chaos instead of actually making things more serene for the ESTJ, the ESTJ will slowly build up resentment for you. Right? So be aware of that. Why does that happen? Well, because Te hero is all about what other people think and ESTJs are always aware of how others are thinking of them. Right? Si parent is all about needing to be comfortable and having a [grand], receiving a good experience from you, their date, right? So seek to give them a good experience by trying your best to be orderly, or at least ask them, “What experience can I give you?” or allow them to help you dress or listen to their criticism.

Chase: There’s this one ESTJ woman, her name is Jia, fantastic woman. Uh, she, I met her in a club one time and we were out drinking and, uh, with friends from work. And she criticized me pretty hard. She told me that I had no fashion sense, and I was pretty ugly with how I dress because I always wore some kind of undershirt under everything. She’s like, “No, you need to let your chest hair out at all times. You got it, you got to show it. That’s more respectable, that’s more attractive for a man, right? She’s got Se critic, right? I should probably listen to her because Se critic understands fashion probably better than anyone else. I mean, think about it. ESTJ’s especially like all gym babes, right? The babes on the, on the beach that have very little body fat? Those women, for example, they’re STJs, by and large they’re STJs.

Chase: Because of that, it’s important to recognize, you know, okay, they’ve achieved that. They understand fashion. They take it very seriously. I should be willing to listen to their advice. To this day, I don’t wear undershirts anymore. Thank you Jia. Right. She saw that there was some chaos with how I dressed and she’s like, “Okay, let me bring some order to this chaos so I can have serenity as result of the experience that you’re giving me. The visual experience that you’re giving me when we go out so you’re not triggering me.” Right? So I took it very seriously and I haven’t looked back, and I’ve had good results with it, right? Because critic functions pretty, for the most part, as idealistic and it is because they try to be as perfect as possible, even though it is impossible to be perfect as a human being. But they try those critic functions.

Chase: It’s helpful to listen to them because they are usually wise, the wise old man or the wise old woman are the critic functions, right? It’s no different with ESTJs, virtue and vice serenity versus chaos. Help them become serene. Help them bring things into order and your life as well and their life. They generally have an order about their life already, but do not add to the chaos and you will have a great relationship with them, right? You’ll be good friends with them,r good lovers with them because you are not adding to the chaos and you’re trying to do your best to preserve the order and it really helps them out and they are trying to preserve the order and serenity in your life as well so that you can be serene together. That’s the point.

Chase: However, remember they can get stuck in a rut and they can actually end up creating chaos. So if they get stuck in a rut make sure you obligate that Si parent, tell that Si parent that it’s duty to continue the hard work or the continued work of bringing order to chaos. And that is the virtue and vice of the ESTJ. If you found this video helpful or insightful, educational, please subscribe to the channel and leave a like, that’d be fantastic. And if you have any questions about virtue and vice, or ESTJs, or serenity versus chaos, please leave it in the comments section and I’ll do my best to answer your question. We’re going to be doing 16 of these virtue and vice videos. Then we’re going to be launching into compatibility. We’re going to be doing general compatibilities because there’s different kinds of compatibility. We’re also gonna be doing sexual compatibility, and we’re going to be doing business working relationship compatibility. And we’re going to do something special where we’ll be doing the five love languages for all of the types as well and doing deep dives on that point of view. That way everyone here as the audience has good understanding of compatibility from as many angles as we can possibly get. So let’s keep it going and I’ll see you guys tonight.

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