Season 2, Episode 6 Transcript
Chase: Hey guys. We’ve been talking about the four temperaments as part of the first half of the series for how to type somebody else. Well here’s the second half. We’re going to be talking about the interaction styles. There’s kind of a bit of a controversy attached to interaction styles. That controversy is mostly based around whether or not they’re real, or if they’re actually worth utilizing in trying to determine how someone is typed or not.
Chase: The MBTI for the last couple years actually just recently picked up the interaction styles, at least as far as I know, and started utilizing them as part of some of their test materials. But they never actually fully integrated it with the test itself. The interaction styles have mostly just been used as an add on. They just have a piece of paper and be like, “Oh hey. Maybe you should just read this cool thing that we’ve got, and just consider it for a minute”. But it was never actually really part of the test. That’s all the MBTI really is. It’s just a test, and it tests for the four letter indicators basically. There’s not really much to that test.
Chase: Anyway, where do the interaction styles even come from? Well, they come from one of my favorite Jungian analytical psychologists, Miss Linda Berens. B-E-R-E-N-S. I recommend you buy her books if you’re serious about getting into depth psychology, or Jungian analytical psychology for that matter. With that in mind, Linda Berens came up with the interaction styles. The interaction styles are bloody fantastic. There’s four of them, and today’s video is the first of the four. Let’s talk about the DICs. The direct initiating control group for interaction styles. Also known as the in charge types.
Chase: There are four types associated with the in charge group. That is the ESTJ, the ESTP, the ENTJ, and the ENFJ. Notice how one of each type is represented from each of the four temperaments. We have our traditionalists. That’s the ESTJ. We have our artisan. That’s the ESTP. We have the intellectual. The ENTJ. We have the idealist. The ENFJ.
Chase: Those four types make up the direct initiating control interaction style, also known as the in charge types. But I prefer to call them the structure types. Because they’re very structure oriented. Now usually when you’re structure oriented, you like to take charge. You like to set up the structure appropriately, and kind of lead from that structural position because you understand the integrity of the structure or organization that you’re trying to put in place, right?
Chase: But let’s talk about direct and initiating and control, and what those things actually mean. Direct basically means that you have very few words. A man of few words. You mean what you say and you say what you mean. I’m informative, which means I’ll talk your face off. ESTPs call people like me a fast talker. Usually a fast talker is someone who’s trying to manipulate you or take advantage of you, etc. But none of that has actually anything to do with manipulation at all. It’s just a way that I decide and others decide or prefer to interact with their fellow human beings.
Chase: But the structure types, they’re direct. You can usually instantly spot one just by how direct they are. If there is a lot of words, if they’re talking a lot, chances are they’re not likely direct at all. Not even remotely. It gets even more interesting when you talk about directness, because you look at the ESTP, and they’re what we call triple direct. Why is that? Their ego, their subconscious, and their unconscious shadow side of their mind, they’re all direct. Because you have an in charge type, and they’re also part of another interaction style that is also direct, alongside the DICs. I love saying that, by the way. I think I just swallowed a fly or something. Oh, it’s a lot of mosquitoes. We’re in a wetland area here. I think I’m going to get bit a lot tonight. I’m walking really fast to avoid them.
Chase: Anyway. Direct initiating control. What does initiating mean? It’s one of my favorite things. If you’re initiating, that means you’re not responding. A lot of people are like, “Well I’m this percentage introverted”, or, “I’m this percentage extraverted”. Uh, yeah, no. That’s not actually how that works. How it really works is whether or not you’re initiating or you’re responding. Direct initiating control types. In charge types. Structure types. Those four types are all about initiating. They have no problem whatsoever taking charge, taking the lead, and initiating with anyone. Initiating conversation.
Chase: This is where introverts kind of get thrown by the wayside, because they’re more responding. Introverts prefer people to come to them. Whereas extraverts prefer to go to others. That is initiation versus responding, and the structure types in this interaction style prefer to initiate with people. You look at somebody who is a man of few words. They say what they mean. They mean what they say. They don’t mince words. They don’t have this huge amount of, they’re not very voluminous with their words, basically. But because of that, you know that they’re direct.
Chase: If they’re initiating with you instead of you having to go to them, you know that they extraverted. You know that they’re direct and initiating. You automatically know because of those two put together that they’re part of the direct initiating control, thus they’re a structure type, which means automatically you’ve just eliminated eight, no, 12 of the 16 types. You automatically know that they’re an ESTJ or ENTJ, ENFJ, ESTP. You automatically know that. Just because you’ve identified those two aspects.
Chase: From there, there’s a third way you can actually determine this interaction style. That’s their control. Control is great. When I say control people freak out every time I talk about that. “Oh, you’re saying that I’m really controlling”. It’s like, “No. You’re not controlling. That’s not what I’m saying”. “Oh, you’re accusing me of being in control”. “No. That’s not what I’m saying”. All control type means, it’s control versus movement, people. Movement, I’m a movement type. I fly by the seat of my pants. Let me tell you. I am going speed racer all the time. So is Gary Vaynerchuk. So is Tai Lopez. They are flying by.
Chase: But then you get a control type, like Donald J Trump, right? Donald Trump. Mister control, right? It’s because he goes at his own pace. He takes his jolly sweet time doing anything. Now, if he were here he’d probably disagree with me. But compared to me, yeah. He’s control, because he takes his time. That’s the main issue. That’s the main issue between control versus movement.
Chase: You look at these ESTJs, ESTPs, ENTJs, ENFJs. You look at these people and you’re like, “Well, are you really movement?”. No. They’re control. If things get out of control for them, if things start moving a little bit too quickly for them, they get really insecure. They get butt hurt big time. You ever want to mess with one of the in charge types? You ever want to mess with the structure types? Start making decisions without their input. Start making decisions so that events start progressing quicker than they can even handle. That’s what you want to do. That’s one way to just kind of flop them over.
Chase: Or another way is to force them in a situation where they can’t initiate with anybody. Good luck crafting that situation. I don’t think that’s possible. They’re forced to only respond, and all their energy levels will drop. They’ll basically become super lethargic. Anyway. Wow, the light amplification on this camera is great, because it’s actually really dark out. The sun’s basically already gone down. Anyway.
Chase: Direct. Initiating. Control. The in charge types. The types that take charge. The structure types. Let’s talk a little bit more about structure. ESTPs, right? ESTPs are kind of like the odd man out of those four types. Why? Because they’re the P. They’re the only P. The only … Gosh, these bugs are crazy. I’m actually going to get my pace up here a little bit.
Chase: ESTPs, they’re the odd man out. It’s usually because, say they come into an organization or a system or a classroom. Some kind of organized institution of some kind. These ESTPs, what they will do, if they don’t agree with it they’ll break every rule. They exist to test the structure. If it doesn’t meet their specifications, if it doesn’t meet their expectations, their standards, they’re going to tear down that structure. They’re going to want to tear it down and replace it with a new structure. Usually they do this in tandem with overseers, which are ESTJs. Once they’ve built the new structure, they hand it over to the ESTJ to administer.
Chase: Usually when you see an ESTP burning a structure down like they do, because they can get really ragey, and they’ll break every rule in the book, because they have to test all of the rules. All the rules have to be tested. Well, once they’ve rebuilt a new structure with new rules, they’ll work with the ESTJ to administer that new structure and those new rules. That’s how they work.
Chase: ENTJs, ENFJs, very different. ENFJs, they want to be in charge and lead social change. We talked about this yesterday. Fundraising, as well as anything that they could do to help their community. Any form of activism, right? Any of those things are aspects that an ENFJ would seek, because they’re very people focused. An ENTJ however, they’re interested in creating systems of technologies that change technology, that increase one’s profitability. Very numbers oriented. Very systems oriented. That’s kind of where their interests lie from an in charge standpoint. That’s why ENTJs historically are the richest of all the types. Well, ENTJ virtue and vice. Altruism versus avarice. We’ll talk more about virtue and vice later. But that’s kind of where the ENTJ is coming from.
Chase: ENTJs are accused of being the most greedy of all the types because they really take charge of their money. They really take charge of anything financial. Anything profitable. Intellectual property even. They’re always investing, especially in real estate. Because they recognize how wise it is to invest in that direction. You can convince an ENTJ of anything as long as the numbers line up. In some cases you can do that to an ESTJ. But then again, if you can convince an ENTJ from a numbers value prop, you could convince almost any type of that. Unless of course they have no rationale. I’m talking to you, IFJs. Yeah, ISFJs and INFJs. Because you have no rationale to save your life. No offense, but that’s just how you are.
Chase: Anyway. Those are the direct initiating control. That basically means they mean what they say and they say what they mean with their speech. Men of few words. Women of few words. They’re not like me. I’m informative. They initiate with people instead of responding. They take control. At times they’re accused of trying to always be in control, but that’s because they don’t want things moving too quickly. Because chaos is everything they’re trying to avoid. Even though the ESTP is okay with a little chaos. But it’s more of controlled chaos. Whereas the other three in the structure or in charge types, just absolutely not.
Chase: Anyway. That is the first interaction style of this series. If you found this video to be educational or helpful, please give us a like and subscribe to the channel and support it. I appreciate it. If you have any questions, please put it in the comment section, and I will do my best to answer your questions. Thank-you all so far for your support of the channel. It’s been great, even though we’ve really only been talking to people on Twitter and Discord. But it’s been fantastic. More to come. I’ll talk to you all later. Have a good night.
Super helpful but wanted to add as ENTJ and professional activist (lobbyist) – Activism is a matter of justice for some – not emotion. While I am surrounded by many Feelers, most executives/leaders in this space are Te. My commitment to a profession like advocacy, and career in the political/nonprofit space is not because I have a “feel good” profession…for me, it’s a matter of order, values and objective right and wrong. As articulated here: ENTJ is strongly driven by values. No I find nothing laudable about abject poverty, but I am not interested in number crunching outside of my core values: e.g. how many people are we serving, what impact are we having, what’s our reach? how can we increase it?, etc.