INFJ & ESTP Octagram Development (Objectification vs Idolatry) | CS Joseph Responds


CS Joseph responds to the Acolyte question what is the difference between a subconscious developed INFJ and an unconscious focused one.


Hey what’s up ego hackers. Welcome to CS Joseph podcast. I’m your host CS Joseph. Shout out to Chris Taylor for CO hosting acolyte questions with me.

This week, it’s been really great to have him on the show. We’re gonna probably be having him more. He’s one of the experts that we have on the CSJ team, and our community manager on our Discord. If you want to join our community discord and learn more about typology, go to forward slash ego hackers.

Today’s question, what is the difference between a unconscious developed INFJ versus a subconscious developed? INFJ? Another Archigram question. I’m so happy that there’s a lot of Okta gram questions coming in, which is pretty great. You get to have little mini previews of some of the content before the more in depth videos are actually or episodes are released. In the members area for the journeyman members if you want to become a journeyman member to get access to those awesome episodes, CS Joseph dot life Ford slash members.

So what is the difference? Remember folks, unconscious development versus subconscious development in terms of the aka gram is based on whether or not a person is closer to their shadow pole versus their aspiration poll. And to actually know what those are, go to CS Joseph dot life, go to our blog, or Ford slash blog or Ford slash content. And then search for the template wheels John Bodeen did an amazing article explaining exactly what the template wheels are, we also have gone in depth discussing the temple wheels. How often very often, especially our temple related content in season 18 cognitive mechanics, which is also available to journeyman members right now behind the paywall.

So the only reason content like this is being brought here on to YouTube and the podcast is because an acolyte member has basically paid for the opportunity for all of us to learn. So let’s give it give it up for the Acolytes who are supporting this channel, keeping the lights on basically, and allowing us to continue to continue to develop the science and build cutting edge software to make everyone make it easier on everyone to utilize the science as a result. So anyway, unconscious development and subconscious development. So when it comes to an INFJ, remember their cognitive origin is intimacy and connectedness, intimacy and connectedness.

That’s what that’s the one thing out of life that they want the most this is why INFJs and ESTP is like them. They both suffer from loneliness more than any of the 16 types. Of course, no one can feel lonely. And trust me I do sometimes.

But the reality of situation is, is that no one’s going to feel it the hardest, like in ESTPs and INFJs. This is why statistically ENFP or ESTPs and INFJs technically have the most sexual relationships throughout their life. Like my cousin Nick is an ESTP. Like he’s been with hundreds, hundreds of women, for example.

He’s also ut UF with his aka Graham. So it’s really really fascinating to see how that actually plays out in his life and other people’s lives as a result. But the shadow pole of these two types is known as idealization also known as idolatry, right? Basically, where they’re putting their lover or particular person place, or things XYZ noun on a pedestal, right? They’re putting on a pedestal, and they idolize that person. And as much as they also idolize end up idolizing themselves, which can also be a thing, but the thing is, is that it’s ultimately to a point of servitude and serving our particular idol that they would have, right.

So what that means, that’s where that comes from. That’s what that’s all about, right? They are literally committing idolatry. And that’s what it is to be unconscious developed. Subconscious developers a little bit different.

That is objectification, they are objectifying themselves. They like to be treated like objects. They also objectify other people, and they often treat other people like objects which can suck, it could suck a lot. And you know, like, like Railgun for example, she’s subconscious developed, so she is all about objectification was really interesting about the octo gram.

And we’re gonna actually be discussing this in the next cutting edge episodes of cutting edge episodes to be a little preview for cutting edge podcast, which is only available to journeyman members. And the February 2023 episode we’re going to be discussing, we’re discussing how Akram works intrinsically a little bit more about Okta, gram related compatibility in terms of relationships, but also how people utilize their human nurture utilize their Okta gram to help facilitate relationships in their lives and how they actually use their nurture to even choose their partners, or from their point of view, from a neutral perspective. How that makes them well, how they can actually become happy in their relationships, like, on Instagram has a lot to do with that, even if you’re in a golden pair, even if you’re a natural parent. So we’re gonna actually be exploring that and going deep into it.

But so, so don’t miss that, check that out. But the point is, is that if someone’s like, you know, subconscious developed, so they’re closer to the objectification side of their temporal wheel, then they would like to be idolized by other people basically. Which is pretty cool. And the opposite is also true.

If your unconscious developed and you are, idealization and putting other people on the pedestal, sometimes you would like to actually be objectified by other people. This is why sometimes from the context of sexual relationships, you know, you have certain people who are like ESTPs and INFJs. And they end up making these crazy statements about like saying, like, you know, sometimes I just want to be a pair of tickets to my lover is like, whoa, white, or sometimes, I just want to be nothing but a phallus to my lover. And it’s like, okay, that’s getting a little interesting.

But again, that’s kind of ultimately how objectification works, they want to be some kind of object, they’re tired of being a human all the time, and they want to be like less human or treated less than a human, so that they can actually appreciate more. So what it’s actually like to be human as a result. But in the context of INFJs, when it comes to unconscious development versus subconscious development, the INFJ, who is unconscious, developed, this is an INFJ, who has basically been disabled in their childhood, instead of enabled right and enabled one is so conscious about but the unconscious about one is like, they’re basically being forced by their environment to idolize other people basically. And so from their perspective, in order for them to have gotten their needs met as a child, they would basically have to get to a point where they are idolizing people in their own family, or people within their environment, or idolizing aspects of their environment, in order for them to survive their painful and disabling environment, ultimately, and this is where they’re able to utilize a high level of maturity, right.

versus someone who has been entirely enabled. And that enabling the subconscious development, where they’re all about being objectified, where people and their upbringing has basically objectify them, objectified them, because and because of how successful they were with their performance, like this is like, for example, like a take a, like an INFJ athlete, a very successful INFJ athlete, right. And this successful INFJ athlete is able to be a better top performer than everyone else, no one can outperform them because extroverted sensing, inferior has gone aspirational is very aspirational. And because of that high level of aspiration, they’re a top performer, and their parents or their family or their childhood environment has rewarded this INFJ for being a top performer and they’ve been a top performer consistently, maybe they’re an athlete, for example, you know, growing up as a child, right.

And that’s, that’s pretty cool. It’s pretty awesome that they do that. They then they had that familial support structure that would support them at every opportunity and cheer them on every opportunity to within their top performance, even to the point of even objectifying the INFJ themselves, right. So they already see themselves as this top performer, as a result of being subconscious developed, versus the unconscious developed side, they’ve actually been seen as someone who doesn’t perform well enough, right? This has caused them to actually develop their own form of maturity and get away from naivete, because they know that what they’ve done really just wasn’t really that good enough.

And the eyes of people, you know, throughout their childhood, basically, which really sucks. It can be very painful. But then again, you know, sometimes they end up becoming unconscious focus, and that’s an SD UF Archigram variant of INFJ. And that that can be rough because all that support that they had for their top performance, while they’re young, all of a sudden is just taken away from them when they become an adult versus those who are able to sustain that high level of performance as well as the high level of praise that they’re getting and potentially being objectified, you know, as an idol basically right? In other people’s eyes as a result of being a top performer in a sport or an art, you know, like, like Ed Sheeran, for example, he is an INFJ recording artists, for example, he is subconscious developed, right.

So, that two ends up becoming very fascinating, you know, like, in terms of like, the differences between the INF jays, you know, as a result, but yeah, again, you just bring it back to childhood, you know, potentially adolescence, but it’s mostly childhood, I’d say 80% of it is childhood, and then 20% of it is adolescence, you know, like, like, for example, St. Uf, you know, they had a great childhood, they were hella enabled, and all sudden, their teenager, their parents don’t know how to deal with them being a teenager anymore. Their parents assume that because of how immature their child is, you know, because their subconscious developed, all of a sudden take all that support away from them, and then put on needless restrictions upon their teenager, even though their teenager INFJ has not actually done anything wrong. So they, so then all of a sudden, they have to become unconscious, focused within their adolescence to deal with the fact that all of that subconscious development support that their childhood family was providing them all of a sudden was taken away from them instantly.

And that’s actually railguns experience as an ESTP, with the same temper wheel as an INFJ. That’s her experience, that’s what she had to deal with, which really sucks, because all of a sudden, she became a teenager, and then her parents went from enabling her to entirely disabling her at every opportunity that they could. So the point of it being abusive, which was really sad, you know, for her to have to deal with. And, you know, my heart goes out to her with that kind of level of suffering that she’s had to deal with, as well.

versus, you know, from my perspective being ut UF, I didn’t have it once. And you know, the UT UF people out there end up becoming like the biggest lone wolves of all the types because it’s like, the only person that’s going to make my life happen is actually me, I can’t rely on other people was especially difficult for INFJs. The reason why is because they are affiliative and affiliative. People, they want to be in a team, they want to feel like they belong to a group, they want to feel like they belong to a family, basically.

And that too, ends up becoming a huge problem, because their family is ultimately not really sustaining what they had before were subconsciously develop because their family is literally afraid of them being a teenager, or let’s say they did have they did have a great adolescence. And then they still end up being adult and then all sudden, boom, they’re just kicked out and they’re 18 And it’s like, Hey, I had all the support and then all the support is taken away from me, boom, it’s out of the way, you know, so then ends up becoming a huge problem. So yeah, an unconscious developed INFJ they’re all about idealization, or to the point of committing idolatry versus a subconscious developed. INFJ is all about objectification, right.

That’s how you tell the difference between the two. For learn more about that read jumbo Dean’s article concerning the temple wheels. And look at the temple wheel that is relating to the cognitive origin of intimacy and connectedness. That’s what it’s all about.

So anyway, folks, thanks for watching, and I’ll see you guys on the next episode.


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