Season 15, Episode 2 Transcript


– Hey guys, it’s C.S. Joseph with, doing another episode for Season 15, Episode Two. We’re going to be talking about providing definitions specifically for what constitutes the interaction style or what constitutes a temperament so that we could figure out how to use the type grid more effectively in order to type ourselves and others. Tonight’s lecture, we’re gonna be talking about direct versus informative. What does it mean to be direct? What does it mean to be informative? The reason for this is because with any of the four interaction styles, you have the in-charge, also known as the structure types, they are direct, initiating and control based. And then you have the starter types, me basically, informative, initiating, movement types. Then you also have the direct responding movement types for the finishers, also known as chart the course, or see it through types. And to finish it off, we have the background types with informative, responding, control. 


The point is that in order to figure out what your interaction style is, you need to know if you, or whoever you’re typing is direct or informative. So, for the sake of this lecture we’re gonna be discussing what that exactly means to be direct or informative. So, it’s pretty easy or it’s completely not easy at all. It could actually be very complicated for some people. Quite frankly, it’s actually more complicated for direct people to detect informative. And it’s not as difficult for informative to detect direct. And a lot of that is like, for example, you take the ESTP type, they’re direct, or the ESTJ, they’re also direct ’cause they’re structured types. So, they’re both direct, at initiating control they’re both direct. But when it comes to them having relationships with other people, we’re talking like highest social compatibility, to an ESTP, a highest social compatibility person is an ISTJ or an ESTJ, they like STJs. And if you notice something about both STJs, they’re actually both direct. So, this type, the ESTP is actually expecting people that they want to be around the most to be direct. that’s why they have a much better time interfacing with people who are direct versus people who are not direct. That’s really something important to understand when you’re looking at direct versus informative because each type actually has a preferred bias, a preferred bias with how they themselves communicate with others. They also have a preferred bias with how others communicate with them, every type does this, I’m just using ESTPs as an example. It gets even more interesting, you look at the INFJ, the opposite of the ESTP, but they are direct themselves but they expect people to be informative with them. Same thing with INTJs, they are direct themselves but they expect to always be informed or be kept informed. So, you have a lot of these little biases within each of the types. See, usually these biases come from a person judging others by their own type, or a person judging others by whose highest in social compatibility with them, top two we’ll say. Or they’re bias in terms of judging someone like their subconscious, because they themselves want to become their subconscious. And they are trying to find other people that are also are that actual subconscious but it’s their ego, or that they too are aspiring in that direction. 


This is how we get fathers living vicariously through their children, fathers living vicariously through children. My dad, for example, he is an ENFJ, he wants to become the ISTP, that’s why later in life he’s more ISTP ish, well, balanced between ISTP and ENFJ we’ll say, instead of just ENFJ. And he really struggled with how I didn’t really want to spend much time in the shop working on cars and playing with tools because I have Se demon. So, that was very difficult for someone like him to deal with. Because we have these little biases with how we communicate, it’s our communication style, this is our interaction style. So, direct, what does direct mean? How do we define someone who is direct in their speech? Well, ask yourself, are you bossy? Are you bossy more often than not? Would someone say you’re bossy? That’s just really, that’s an extreme, it’s actually an extreme definition wise, but let’s talk in extremes, or informative, have you been accused of having a victim mindset or a victim talk? That’s the informative side, the extreme side of the informative. Communication style according to Linda Barrons, also it is interaction style. Dr. Linda Barrons helped develop the interaction styles so that we could use them to type ourselves and others faster and more accurately. That’s why we’re having this lecture. So, direct versus informative. Let’s, actually break it down in some examples. We understand that there’s various interaction style, communication style biases that we have to be aware of, and everyone has these different biases. I might do a lecture series on the different biases so that we can actually look at them and understand where they’re going. I might do it as part of a parenting lecture series. 


We’ll talk about parents living vicariously through their children, I think that will be useful there. So, but more on that later, another day. So, but direct, let’s talk about what is to be directive. And basically you’re mandating things, you’re mandating in your communication. An ESTP or an IMFJ, they open the fridge, let’s just use the fridge example. And they notice that you’re out of milk there’s no milk in the fridge, or the milk went bad, or whatever, the milk needs to be replaced in the fridge. So, the ESTP turns to, say, their INFP in their relationship and says, “I need you to go to the store today and buy some milk,” done, that’s it, that is a direct statement. It’s like the ESTP is giving an order to the INFJ, or to the INFP. Now let’s switch that. The INFP is the one who opens the door to the fridge, and knows that later in the day the ESTP will be going to the store or they’ll just be out and near the store. So, the INFP open the fridge and notices that there is no milk, or the milk is bad, or whatever, but milk needs to be had. So, the INFP then goes to the ESTP and says, “Hey, we’re out of milk.” That’s it, that’s all they said, “We’re out of milk.” That’s the difference between direct and informative, the direct person says, “Go get milk.” It’s like, there’s an action to it. Hey, there’s this action, I need you to take it, do it, do the action. “I need you to go get some milk,” done. The informative person, however, instead of telling the person that, “Hey,” they need to get milk, all they do is make the statement of, “Hey, we’re out of milk.” 


And the informative person is just hoping that the other person will be like, “Oh yeah, we’re out of milk.” And then hoping that person would respond and then offer to go get milk later. Although there is a chance, there’s a small chance that that other person may tell the INFP that was informative about the milk and state, “Well, if we’re out of milk you should get some more milk then.” Because in this situation the INFP is aware, fully aware, that the possibility exists that the ESTP would still tell them to go get milk, but the informative person is merely informing the ESTP because an INFP is not comfortable with being direct to the ESTP in this particular situation and telling the ESTP what they have to do. Could you imagine an INFP telling an ESTP, “You need to go get milk today.” That’s gonna go over well, because that hurts the ESTP’s sense of freedom. You just can’t boss an ESTP around, they’re the one who’s bossy. Well, you have to understand how each of the types, that’s not a one size fits all. I’m just using direct versus informative, using the ESTP and INFP interaction as an example. If we’re gonna do ESTP to ESTJ, let’s switch to that interaction, they’re both direct. The ISTJ, here’s how it’s gonna be. The ESTJ opens the door and is like, “Oh, we’re out of milk.” So, the ESTJ, what they’ll do, they’ll think to themselves, “Oh, I should go get some milk. Oh, but my ESTP roommate, brother, friend, wife, husband,” insert role here, “Is going to the store, or will be near the store later today, I will just tell the ENTP to go get milk because they’re near the store.” It’s direct even though, because, well here’s the thing they’re direct, but the ESTJ will go so far as to explain. Give that additional context or that additional information to the ESTP, but it is still direct so that the ESTP does not feel disrespected. But the INFP in the previous model that we were using saying, “Hey, we’re out of milk,” It invites a choice on part of the ESTP ’cause the INFP deep down is like, “I’m not really in the mood to go get milk today.” If I just tell the ESTP that we’re out of milk, hopefully the ESTP will offer to get milk, and hopefully they don’t tell me to go get it.” And then all of a sudden the ESTP, they’re a nice guy, for example, with nice guy syndrome, they’re like, “Oh, okay, yeah, I’ll want to go get some milk.” And then the ESTP comes on with the milk, problem solved. 


And the INFP got what they wanted. Didn’t have to go get milk, but didn’t have to put themselves at risk of ordering around an ESTP, just one example. When you’re informative it basically means that you’re making a statement about a situation, but you’re giving your audience or whoever you’re talking to the opportunity to choose their role, basically, in the conversation. You’re making a statement, but you’re not giving a direct order, or you’re not bossing them around, or you’re not being directive. You’re giving the other person the opportunity to be directive in that situation. You’re giving them that opportunity. It also puts a little bit of pressure on the audience who is being informed, basically, to have to decrypt or realize that there’s additional subtext, there’s additional context attached to the conversation. Because someone who is informative doesn’t always speak the entire context of what it is. This is why informative people often end up having to over-explain themselves to other people. This is why informative people have a huge volume of words attached to what they say, and this volume of words, if someone’s talking a lot and it’s just a lot and a lot and they just seem like they’re over explaining themselves, they’re informative because they’re informing you, because they’re trying to provide as much context or as much subtext as possible because they’re informing. Here’s another example, an ESFJ, the ESFJ, and this is one of the things that annoys me the most about ESFJs, I call them president obvious because captain obvious is not good enough. And it makes sense ’cause we’re in the same quadra with each other and people were in the same quadra can be kind of annoying if you’re trying to have a face-to-face relationship or even a shoulder to shoulder relationship, because the other people in the quadra have already figured out what’s happening. So, here’s an example, a real life example that happened to me. My former mother-in-law’s in ESFJ and I was married to her daughter, an ESFP, and we were going on a family trip and we were driving around. And I was driving and I spotted something on the road and I’m like, “Oh, hey,” and I was informing everyone at the time. “Hey, there’s a bunch of deer on the side of the road.” 


And then the ESFJ is like, “Oh, there’s a bunch of deer on the side of the road.” I’m like, “I just said that, I already said that.” Well it’s because they have to have the experience themselves. That even though I’ve already had the experience for everyone, but just because ESFJs lack Se, they have to have the experience themselves with their own eyesight apparent, and then it’s like real to them. So, why is this relevant? Well, because when you have ESFP versus ESFJ relationships, they’re both informative to each other, it’s so interesting, they already understand 100% of all the subtext and all of the context that could be missing in saying a statement. I say statements all the time on a regular basis, but the meaning is different. I can say the same sentence but the meaning could have five different meanings depending on the context of the conversation, the subtext, and it causes other people to have to decrypt it. It’s really easy for other informative people, other informative types to decrypt what other informative types are saying. But this stresses out direct people, a lot, to the point where direct people accuse informative people of having a victim mindset, speaking like a victim, victim talk, you’re too slippery, you’re such a fast talker, you’re a manipulative, has nothing to do with that. Actually, by and large, people who are informative are informative because yeah, they can use it for manipulation, for sure, I’m not gonna deny that. But a lot of informative people out there are informative because they don’t wanna put themselves in the director’s seat and be directive at risk, which would put them at risk of coming off as disrespectful to their audience. This is why societally speaking, in this SJ society, the United States of America, for example, this also includes the UK, first-world society, that people who are informative are actually seen to be more feminine, and people who are direct are seen more as masculine, even though that’s not true, that’s just cultural bias. It’s just bias, it’s not really true at all. So, I just talk about how ENTPS, for example, are way more feminine, especially ENTP men. 


That’s not actually true, that’s not actually true because I’m informing you, the audience, when I say that, I’m being informative. When I say, “Men who are ENTPs are typically feminine men,” that’s an informative statement. Why is that? Because, think about it, if I’m gonna be direct about saying that statement, I’m gonna say, “ENTP men are seen more by society, by first rule society as feminine because first-world society has a bias towards informative people and informative people with their communication style are seen as feminine.” Well, it’s not exactly direct but it’s ’cause I had to explain a lot of the context, do you see where I’m going with this? Do you see the example I just used? It’s all about context and subtext with informative types. The real direct way of saying it would be, “ENTP males are not feminine even though society thinks that they are,” done, direct. Direct people communicate with using as few words as necessary. They just state their point and that’s it, there’s nothing else to worry about there, there’s no issue. They’re very directive, on point, “Hey, do this task, do this for me, do that.” Or they make statements about themselves that are not necessarily general, see, that’s the thing, informative people are general and they’re not really specific. They may sound specific, but they’re not. Direct people are always specific, they seek to be as specific as possible. And by being so specific they come off as being really sincere and informative people don’t have a hard time of being labeled as insincere because it’s like, well, hold on, are you trying to put one over on me or not? So, remember back to the example of the milk, “Oh, we’re out of milk.” If I said, “Oh, we’re out of milk.” 


That would mean me hoping that the other person that lives in the home with me would either offer to go get the milk or tell me that I need to go get the milk because I’m giving the option to the other person to choose their role in the conversation instead of just telling them what their role is in the conversation. A direct person would tell them what the role is, a direct person would say, “Oh, there’s no milk, go get some more later today,” ’cause the direct person has already decided what the role is. A direct person, therefore, is more decisive in that way. Now, the MBTI, this is one of the areas the MBTI is flawed because the MBTI would say, “Oh, if you’re a J type you’re more decisive,” that’s not true. “Or if you’re a P type you’re more, not as decisive, the opposite of decisive, whatever, wrong. An INTP, they’ve Ti hero, so they have decision-making number one as their hero, they have decision-making cognitive function. Or an INFJ, they have introverted intuition, it is their number one cognitive function, but it’s for perceiving, gathering information, see it’s different. The MBTI is too limited this way, this is why I don’t like the MBTI, it’s just a test. That’s all it is, it is just a test and nothing more. If the MBTI was actually properly aware of direct versus informative, we’d probably actually understand each other a lot more instead of having a million mistypes. Like, for example, half the INTPs on the CSJ Discord are probably not INTPs but that’s okay. We’ve had a few of them already admit that they’ve been mistyped and we exposed the fact that one of them was actually an INFP a few nights back, which was great. I’m sure they’re grateful that we’ve been able to come to the truth on that, and they are starting to understand themselves and others a lot better because they’re informative. 


But we’ll talk about temperantial differences in an upcoming lecture for this lecture series. The bottom line is that direct versus informative, you have to know it. Direct is defined by being as specific as possible, you’re choosing the roles of the audience in the conversation before you even say anything, and you’re stating what needs to be said with the words that are only needed, because you are committed to being as specific as possible at the risk of coming off as disrespectful or not, because that is not as important as you just potentially getting the task done. Directive people are more task oriented in that regard. The bottom line for informative is you don’t necessarily say what you mean or mean what you say. You are giving your audience the opportunity to choose their role in the conversation. You’re making a more general statement, a more pliable statement, a yin statement. if we’re gonna go Taoist here with yin and yang, whereas direct would be more yang, informative would be more yin. So, it has to be in balance because the yin is pliable. Informative is you’re very pliable with your speech. You are giving the other person the opportunity to choose their role in the conversation. You could also be choosing to be informative because you don’t wanna come off as disrespectful to the other person. Because you’re not coming off as someone who’s bossy but a direct person definitely comes off as someone who’s bossy. Imagine little ENTJ little girl, there are probably some of those bossy people I’ve ever met, little ENTJ girl, same with an ISTJ girl too, they can get pretty bossy. And I’ve seen some bossy boys out there, especially ESTP boys, they can get really bossy, or ESTJ boys as well. And then you see ESTPs and ESTJs boss each other, that’s awesome, it’s fun to watch that. 


Where you see ESFPs, ESFJs inform each other, that’s also another one, interestingly one. But yeah, informative is typically a little bit more difficult to explain, but again, it’s about you’re not trying to come off as disrespectful per se. It could be used as manipulation, there’s a volume of words attached to it, there’s some subtext and context that need to be deciphered along with it. Because when you’re saying, “Oh, we’re out of milk.” Yeah, but what does that mean? What does it mean that we’re out of milk? Are you trying to tell me that I need to go get milk? Are you trying to tell me that you are going to get milk? Okay great, you’ve just made the statement that there’s no milk, now what? Now what are we gonna do? Am I supposed to do something? Are you supposed to do something? Do I wanna do something? Do you want to do something? Do we want someone else to do something? So, an informative user though, when they make those statements, again, their audience is choosing the role, it gives their audience power to make that decision. However, in some cases, not everybody like a fellow informative type are not necessarily excited to be in that position of power to make the decision at that point in time to then direct the other person, but some types are built for it. ESFPs and ESFJs, for example, they can be built for it, the ESFP could switch their INTJ subconscious and be direct all of a sudden for the sake of that conversation. And then the ESFJ, who is triple informative, would yield in that situation and then go get the milk. Because the ESFP decided to turn into someone who is direct with their INTJ subconscious, fantastic. So, anyway, it’s about being being bossy or victim, that’s the extremes. A more balanced approach is being specific versus not specific, directive versus informing, and keeping people informed. One thing I know about informative types though, they really like information. And the best way to beat them is to remove their information, stop their source of information, the less they have, the less they know, the less power they have. That’s why informative types are constantly trying to be informed, especially informative women, that’s why they can get very busy body ish, very gossipy, because they liked to always be informed on everything. 


Direct people, they don’t care because they’re directing things, they’re making things happen. Whereas the informative types, they can be directed or guided to do things as needed or guide others to do things as needed. But it’s never from a point of, “Hey, you need to do this.” Unless of course the conversation requires them to do that and they need to switch into like their unconscious or their subconscious to be able to facilitate that conversation. So, yeah, specific versus in-specific, saying things in as few words as possible or explaining every little detail about everything. The difference between direct and informative. “Hey, I need you to go to the store and get some milk,” or “Hey, we’re out of milk.” That’s the difference. So, knowing the difference now you could use the type grid in such a way where you’ll be able to identify, “Okay, am I director informative?” Because once you know you or someone else’s direct or informative, once you know that you can eliminate half the types. ‘Cause eight types are direct and eight types are informative, so you eliminate it, so use process of elimination, type grid, you just eliminated half and you’re good to go, no problem So, but also keep in mind, when people are shifting to the other sides of their mind, those sides of the mind could be direct, those sides of the mind could be informative. So, if you catch them in a moment where they’re doing that, that may not be their true directness or informativeness. So, what you do, you have to wait, be a little bit patient and just recognize that when they go back in their ego, when they’re in their ego primarily, look at how they’re communicating, look at their interaction. Are they primarily direct or are they primarily informative? That’s how you know. And then once you know, you’ve just eliminated half of the types off the type grid and you now, okay, boom, okay, yeah, she’s direct. So, you instantly know she’s either a structure type or a finisher type, done. She’s not obviously in a starter type and she’s not a background type, just on the fact that she’s primarily direct, done. You’ve got half of your work done just by figuring that out, good to go. That’s why when you use the type grid, you start with interaction styles first before you go to the temperaments, because the temperaments, you should be down to four types. Once you’ve settled on an actual interaction style that leaves you with four types in that interaction style, and then you just have to figure out which temperament they are, which towards the latter half of this lecture series we will explore how to do that. 


So, anyway, I think that’s it for this lecture, if you found this lecture useful, helpful, educational, enlightening, and insightful, please subscribe to the channel here on YouTube and also on the podcast on iTunes or wherever else it is. Also leave a like while you’re at it. Don’t forget we’re doing that giveaway for Dr. Robert Glover’s book, “No More, Mr. Nice Guy.” If you would like to get a copy of that book please make sure you’re subscriber, leave a comment and a like for this channel, the winner will be, I believe it will be announced on my next whiteboard lecture, which is I think the next one, so, be aware of that. And if you haven’t joined Discord yet, join Discord. If you haven’t joined our Bay Area meetup yet, join that too. All of the links associated with that are in the description of this lecture, so, awesome. Well, you folks have a good night, I’ll see you guys tomorrow.

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