Season 15, Episode 4 Transcript


– Hey it’s CS Joseph with doin’ another episode for season 15, this is episode four. We’re going to be talking about how control differs from movement and why control and movement and knowing them is important for helping you understand and interpret the N-Type Grid so that you would understand how to type yourself and others. So control versus movement comes from Dr. Linda Berens’ model or way of doing things in terms of how to type yourself and others. Identifying interaction styles and then also identifying your temperament et cetera. So that’s what we use control and movement for in as much as we’ve been talking about informative versus direct, or initiating versus responding right? So there’s three, these different things that you have to be aware of in understanding their interaction style. So if you could figure out if, “Hey you’re direct versus movement.” Or “Hey you are initiating versus responding.” Or “Hey if you are “control versus movement.” As what we’re going to be talking about in today’s episode, then you kind of have an idea of exactly where anyone and your interaction style is. So but let’s talk about the interaction styles real quick. So interaction styles, you have the direct initiating control types, also known as the in-charge or structure types. And then you have the get things going types, also known as the starter types. People who start a bunch of things and have a lot of energy at the beginning, but at the end they kind of peter out a little bit and basically are lacking in the ability to finish. But then you have the finisher types, which they’ve have a difficult time starting new things, but they could definitely finish almost anything right? Put a lot of energy into the finish because they see it through to the end right? 


So we also have the background types also known as behind the scenes, and they are informative, responding, control. So as you could tell, using the Type Grid there’s differences right? When you’re trying to identify their interaction style, because here’s the beauty of identifying an interaction style. If you know their interaction style, you’ve just eliminated 12 of the other types right? Literally just 12. And that’s important. It’s really important because you have to use the Type Grid with deduction right? Deductive reasoning. It’s all about well, process of elimination right? Once you have the right process of elimination down, you kind have an idea how it works. The more types you’re able to eliminate, finally the last type that you have is obviously what type they are right? This is especially important when you’re trying to identify ENTPs. ENTPs are notoriously difficult to type and actually in a lot of MBTI circles they straight up teach people, “Oh hey if you don’t know what type you are, “you must be an ENTP.” Or if you don’t know what type they are put them in an ENTP box basically. That’s been very, very typical for any MBTI course or test that has ever been administered to me right? We just don’t know? Then you must be an ENTP. Well that’s why we have the Type Grid. Thank you Dr. Linda Berens for your methodologies, because we’ve been able to take the Type Grid and finally have a quick and surefire way to the point where if you have mastery of the Type Grid within seconds of coming into contact with any human being, you know exactly what type they are, you know exactly what their cognitive functions are as a result, and then you know exactly how to interact with them. How to optimize your behavior to get the best possible experience and the best possible result of your interaction with this fellow human being right? That’s why we’re doing this right? 


So mastering the Type Grid becomes key. Absolutely critical to success, when it comes to having relationships or interacting with any human being. This could be your spouse. This could be your children. Any member of your family, anyone at school, any professional relationship right? All of these things are tracked, understood, taken care of. Right? So. So just be aware of these little intricacies right? It’s important that we utilize the Type Grid as much as possible because for example, if you understand it, and if a lot of people understand how it works, like say if it was deployed at schools, imagine how great it would be to finally have various curriculi, various ways of teaching at schools, optimized specifically for the audience of different children. So yeah, you would have 16 different kinds of curriculum available. Right? Very important. So Wow. Got a lot of them barkin’ dogs here in this neighborhood. Yeah well they probably don’t like me very much. Anyway. So that’s why we’re learning this. That’s why we’re focusing so much time on the Type Grid and how to use it properly. So today’s lecture we’re gonna be talking about the difference between control and movement right? So I’m movement. I am movement. I’m all about speed right? That’s what movement types are all about. We have a need for speed. Seriously have a need for speed. Some types of a higher speed need for speed than others. Take for example ENFPs. And INTJs. Those two types. They’re triple movement. When you’re triple something that basically means your ego, your subconscious and your unconscious basically are all movement interaction style. So that means you’re really fast. Super quick. Sometimes you give people whiplash you’re so quick in making decisions. And, or you drive really fast. 


You’re always trying to, gotta go somewhere quick. Often times movement types can find themselves in this pattern of hurry up and wait. Right? And that’s kind of just like, wow okay? Hurry up and wait? Right? No. That’s not exactly the most appropriate way of doing it, but I mean I’m guilty of it. So yeah. Hurry up and wait. Movement. Movement is very focused on progress. That’s the key. It actually is how anyone attains progress is control versus movement. People have a way to get the progress that they want in their life right? So movement person, chaos. Chaos can be introduced in a situation and to get things unstuck, to get things moving again. And then because they’re unstuck because progress has occurred, they’re okay right? So take this in terms of a relationship right? If you’re in a relationship with somebody just starting out, and say they’re a… they’re chart the course right? They’re direct responding movement type, and you’re in a relationship with them, you just started out with them. Well that finisher basically cause they’re a finisher, that finisher type, if you aren’t paying much attention to them or are not interacting with them very much, there’s like a lack of movement there. And it will drive them nuts right? They don’t need to like have a declaration. “Oh you’re committing to me, “you’re going to get married to me right now.” That’s not about it they just want progress. They want the relationship to progress further right? If there’s a lack of interaction, it means to them that things have stagnated right? Movement types hate stagnation. Stagnation is everything a movement type is against. Right? Stay away from stagnation. Stagnation is like the bane of the movement type’s existence. Definitely not something I would recommend. Wow. I should learn how to pronounce something better. Anyway. So with that being said progress. It’s all about progress because movement types can get progress in the midst of chaos right? And sometimes they introduce chaos in order to get the movement or to put a stop to the stagnation. Even if it’s kind of random they’ll introduce chaos. 


They will use chaos basically chaos is a ladder right? An INTJ said that. Chaos is a ladder. And you’re able to get additional progress or extract progress out of a situation or a relationship, maybe even a game or and I mean not just a video game, I mean even a basketball game just by introducing chaos. Because it may be necessary to keep things fresh right? Movement is all about keeping things fresh. You’ll also notice something that movement is actually kind of, it’s almost a little feminine in some ways, because that’s what feminine is all about. According to David Deida in The Way of the Superior Man, he talks about how the feminine exists to keep the energy going right? Movement is no… Movement’s part of that. It’s no exception to the rule basically. Movement is no exception. So understand that. Stagnation is the enemy of the movement types and they move very quickly, and they make decisions very quickly in some cases. Although that’s not to say that some control types don’t make decisions quickly. I know ENTJs can be very impulsive and make decisions very quick. If the one thing that they’ve been looking for for a long time is staring them right back in the face. They’re gonna go for it and they’re not going to wait. Cause it means everything to them because they’ve been waiting for it for so long right? They’ve been planning for it, so it actually looks and appears that they’re being impulsive when in reality it’s not because it’s something they’ve been thinking about for a very long time. Something they’ve been dreaming about for a very long time right? So but let’s talk a little bit about control. So control types, different right? Chaos or progress can not occur in the midst of chaos. So take an ESTJ for example, an ESTJ man, and he’s very process-oriented. Everything has routine. Everything has a certain way of doing things and it’s like, they constantly have to remove chaos no matter wherever they are or whatever they’re doing. Because chaos can continue to be an issue. 


It’s like chaos is a threat basically. A threat to the ENTJ and they have to get rid of it. It’s like, they’re looking around in life and then everything they look is just kinda shaking and chaotic to them and they exist to bring everything into order. Right? Ah. That is what control is. It’s order. Now you remember me talkin’ about in one of my lectures, what is the mature feminine, the queen archetype. And I talk about a lot, I say the phrase “order determines outcome” over and over and over. That is literally the way control types work. They need to have things in order for them to have a specific outcome. Progress cannot occur right? Progress cannot occur in the midst of chaos. If chaos present, they cannot get the progress that they desperately seek. Right? So it’s the other side of the coin. Whereas movement types, they need the chaos in order for them to get the progress they want. Right? And then when you take a movement type and a control type, you put them together in a relationship, it becomes orderly chaos or organized chaos. Oxymoronic yes I understand. But that’s literally how it works. That’s literally what’s happening. And be aware of that right? Although there are some relationships where it’s movement plus movement or control plus control, depending on compatibilities et cetera. Even professional relationships, it may be good to have both or one or the other. It really just depends on, which algorithm are you using to determine compatibility. Is it social compatibilities or professional compatibilities? Is it sexual compatibility? There’s a lot of different compatibilities to be aware of when it comes to the cognitive functions and the various interaction styles. But for the most part, there is synergy. And there’s also, some polarity or anti-synergy I guess, between control versus movement right? 


So I’m not gonna tell you that, “Oh if you’re a movement type “you should be with another movement type.” I’m not going to tell you, “Oh if you’re a control type, “you should be with another control type.” Although it does work. It works really well like if we’re just gonna talk ideal type relationships, for intuitives ENTJs ideally would be with INTPs. Or ENTPs would ideally be with INTJs right? That’s the NTs. And for the NFs it would be ENFJ plus INFP. Or it would be INFJ plus ENFP right? Movement-movement, control-control. Okay that makes sense. Ah! However, ideally speaking if we’re going to look at the sensors, it’s a little bit different right? You have ESTP and ESTJ those are both control right? You have ISTP plus ESFJ that’s movement movement. Right? Wait a minute. Excuse me. ISTP ESTJ is movement control my bad. That’s actually better, the better when it’s not the same as ESTJ ESTP. Sometimes I get confused from old frameworks and models I used to use. So let’s do ESTP again. ESTP control would be with ISTJ movement right? So again there’s a case for control versus movement. So, but if you look at their secondary second highest, that would be ESTP ESTJ. Okay and that’s control control right? So again, it just depends on the kind of compatibility you want. Or how your human nurture has impacted your human nature. Because for example, if you were an ESTP right? Nurturally speaking you don’t, you know where you’re at in your life at that point in time, you can not afford to have any additional chaos in your life so you would want to be with an ESTJ to help bring more order to your life right? And that’s not to say that an ISTJ could still bring order to an ESTPs life. Cause they definitely can but it, it really just depends. It depends on what flavor in mind that you have for your face-to-face relationships or your shoulder to shoulder relationships. It just really depends. It depends what you need. It depends what your human nurture would prefer essentially. So with that in mind, we need to be aware of okay, great. Any type could technically be compatible with any type from this interaction. Potentially yes. But that’s not the point. The point is we’re trying to learn how to type people here. So you need to understand the differences between control and movement in these ways. 


Remember order determines outcome. That is central and core to the control type. Now how does this look? It looks like they do everything in an orderly fashion, right? The control types. It has nothing to do with them being so very controlling, right? Has nothing to do with being controlling. Although oftentimes control types, especially ESTJs and ENTJs, TE heroes, which I just did a type comparison lecture on them both. They are often accused of being too controlling. Really the best way to say it is that they’re too orderly. Right? The reason is they have to have things in order because they can’t mentally deal with chaos. If there’s chaos present, they feel like they’re not gonna make progress anywhere. Like they’re not going to get to where they need to go. Right? They have to have that order. And they need to be in relationships with people that respect their need for order. Right? So that’s why it’s all about control. That’s why they go at their own pace. They take their time. Right? Unless of course like if you’re an ENTJ, you find that one thing that you know that you’ve been waiting for and you want it that badly, you’re going to stop at nothing to get it, then definitely you’re going to hit the gas on that and go Speed Racer and get it. But again generally, primarily order determines outcome. Everything is done in an orderly manner. It follows a routine. It follows a process because again, for example ENTJs case they get distracted right? Because they’re se child. 


And they get distracted and then all of a sudden they look at the clock, five hours have gone by, they’re not able to meet their responsibilities right? So they have to exercise some amount of control or order in their life to prevent time from just slipping out of their fingers and that they’re using their time effectively right? It’s very important right? INFPs they need order so that they could stay comfortable because their comfort is based on order right? So order means something different to each of the control types but it is still a need that they have and it’s how they interact with others. And if things get out of control they freak out. They freak out in some way. Or for example, a movement type they freak out if there’s a lack of progress. If there’s a lack of movement. If there’s a lack of energy. If things start to stagnate. So here’s where a potential conflict can come in between control versus movement. Control can cause if something is too orderly, if the grip of a control type is so strong over certain areas of life, especially in relationships, the movement person in the relationship will freak out and believe that there is stagnation in the relationship and there’s no life in the relationship. And that the relationship is literally dying right? And that is a problem. That is what they fear. That is not good right? But from the orderly control type, it’s just like, “Nah man we got things under control. “We’re all good.” But the movement type’s like “But there’s no progress.” There’s death because the river stops flowing. So you remember to a movement type it’s all about the river. It’s all about how, it’s all about how to keep the river flowing. Because where there’s a river flowing there’s life right? The only proof of life is growth and you only get growth with movement. That’s all the movement type wants. It just wants progress. And it will bring chaos in order to force movement in order to force progress, if the control type or even outside of the control type, even if it’s just an unfair situation or a situation that has stagnated in some way shape or form, cause for example, there’s even situations that will or circumstances that will cause a relationship or some interaction to stagnate, even outside of the control of the control type. 


Even outside of their own order. And it’s up to the movement type to step up to the plate, to introduce some chaos, try something else, try something different and then guess what it works. And then the control type actually adjusts their process, their routine, their order to compensate the additional chaos and then they’re more successful themselves right? So it’s actually really healthy for a control type for example, it’s very healthy for them to be around a movement type, to keep them going right? To make sure that they don’t stagnate because it allows them to adjust and grow their order so that they get even additional progress right? Conversely, it’s also very important for a movement type to be around a control type because sometimes they get so chaotic it’s like they’re on a rocking horse right? A lot of movement not going anywhere right? They’re not actually getting progress. And they keep adding chaos, and adding chaos and adding chaos, and they’re not going anywhere because if it. And then they end up stagnating weird. So too much movement right? The point is it needs to be balanced. Life is about balance, Alright? The Dao. Yin and yang right? You gotta be pliable with the yin but sometimes you have to take a stance with yang. Sometimes you gotta be okay with a lotta dogs barking at ya. So, just remember order determines outcome. Control types, all about the order. They go at their own pace. They go on their own order. They take their time. They take their time to do everything because if you have to do it quickly well, there’s a chance it’s not gonna be done right. Right? Control types they understand the triple constraints. The triple constraints. Timeline, budget, specifications. Also known as a cheap, fast or right. You only get to pick two right? If you’re doing everything fast all the time, which is what movement types like to do, they prioritize fast, well that means it’s either going to be, really expensive, because for example, if you wanna do something fast and right, that means it’s going to be expensive. 


Well if you want to do something fast and cheap, it’s not gonna be done right. See whereas the control type, they take it a little bit different right? Going at their own pace. They could do things cheaply and they could do things right. It’s just going to take a long time right. It’s a different way of looking at it okay? Control versus movement. Two sides of the same coin. It’s how the human being is able to get progress. Do they utilize chaos to get it or do they utilize order to get it? That’s the difference. Okay? So if you see someone who’s behaving pretty chaotically or they’re moving very quick, they’re very fast. One of the ways to test this, set down your family and have a meal together, have everyone start eating at the same time and literally time your family. Watch who finishes their plate first. Those are the movement types. Watch who finishes their plate last. Those are the control types basically. It’s a very simple exercise. And it’ll kind of show you just an example of how they interact. Driving. Driving is another one. I talk about driving all the time, especially with INJs and they’re of the 16 types they are the last types of all the 16 types to learn how to drive. And sometimes in some cases they never learn how to drive. But that’s just how it is in first-world society I guess. Kind of a nurtural thing. But you know, people that really drive slow on the road, typically are control types. People that drive super quick on the road are movement types right? Because they gotta go fast. And they’re comfortable with being in the midst of chaos. If things are too stagnated, it’s gonna freak out. Like for example, let’s say that if you’re you’re in gridlock on the freeway and you have the choice to continue on the freeway or get off on an exit, a movement type, even if their app is telling them on their phone, it’s telling them that if they stay on the freeway, it’s going to take them less time to get home but they have to suffer the gridlock of getting home, they would rather exit the freeway right? They would rather exit the freeway, which will be a longer route home but as long as they’re moving they’re okay right? It’s weird. 


Whereas the control type would just be like, “Eh I’m fine being patient here, “sittin’ in the traffic and getting home because “my app tells me I’m just gonna get home.” Right? Order. Order versus chaos. Which tools are being used to get the progress that they want in their life. Is this person have the perspective of progress cannot occur in the midst of chaos? Is this person someone who is progress can occur in the midst of chaos? Right? Very important. Does this person complain about stagnation? Right? A lot of people would say stereotypically, that movement is more of a female thing and control is more of a male thing. And that’s really a cultural bias that we have here in first-world culture, especially this SJ society of the United States of America. Okay I can understand that argument but it’s not good enough. It’s not ideal. It’s not real. It’s not… it’s not based on facts. Because the reality is situation is anyone can be movement. Anyone can be control. Right? And I get that sometimes women need to challenge their men and put their men in check right? Because they’re concerned about stagnancy because as a feminine person, they are concerned about life and growth and movement and stagnation is a sign of there’s no life, there’s no growth right? So you’d have ISTP woman whose getting in the face of her ESTJ man and being like, “You’re being lazy and you’re not doing anything. “And “come on get movin’.” And then the ISTJ realizes it’s their duty to go out and mow the lawn today. You know what I mean? Instead of sitting on the couch doing nothing and looking forward to open up a new bottle of wine later that night. But again control versus movement. This is how this works. Control is based on order. Right? Order determines outcome. It’s all about progress. It’s all about the outcome they’re trying to get. Movement types are okay with chaos to get the progress that they’re looking for to get the outcome that they’re looking for. Too much control. Too much order can lead to stagnation in as much as too much chaos can lead to stagnation. One flies by the seat of their pants that’s movement. The other one takes their jolly sweet time to do everything right? 


And because they take their jolly sweet time they go at their own pace right? Very control oriented. It’s not about being controlling right? Although it looks like that sometimes when it comes to a person’s order right. Because of how they’ve ordered their life and disrupting that order well, it would make them uncomfortable or they just end up having like this lack of sense of control over their life right? I mean ENFJs do this. They’re a control type and I’m with an ENFJ right now and sometimes she tells me “Oh I feel like my life is spinning out of control.” Right? It’s like a very normal thing for her to think or to feel basically. “Oh my life is spinning out of control.” And I’m like, “No I think we’re doing great. “There’s a lot of chaos going around. “Movement is happening. “You’re having progress.” And I point out the progress that she’s getting right? But she doesn’t feel like she’s having progress because it’s all out of control. It’s not something that she planned out specifically. Right? And it’s not a direct result of her planning or direct result of her order basically. So that’s just, that’s the difference. So understanding the control versus movement is very important in determining interaction styles because movement, movement is very important in that regard. Movement represents the finishers. It also represents the starters. Control represents the in-charge types. And it also represents the background types. So if you identify, “Oh that person is control.” You’ve just eliminated eight types. If you identified, “Oh that person is movement.” You’ve just eliminated eight types. No problem right? You’ve completely eliminated what they are. And then you just got to figure out, okay are they direct? Are they informative? If you’ve identified, “Okay this guy is direct but he’s movement.” That means he is a see it through type. He’s a finisher. Okay? Or you’re talking to some woman and you’re like, “Oh wow she’s really informative and moves really quick. “Wow.” Okay whoa. She’s informative, she’s movement. Okay she’s a starter type. And then you’re like okay well what next? And then she’s talking about possibilities and what if, “Well what if this happens? “What if this happens?” Okay that’s very abstract. So she’s either an ENTP or an ENFP. And you look at her and you find out that she’s not really independent right? So that means she’s affiliative ergo she is an ENFP, for example so we’ll talk more about affiliative and those other roles very soon in the next lecture in this… well we’re gonna be talking about abstraction and concreteness and the next lecture of this particular lecture series in season 15. 


So anyway with that being said, I think I’ve beat this dead horse pretty well and got blood all over my feet because of it. And I don’t think it’s necessary to talk about control versus movement at this point. I think I’ve pretty much well defined it. So with that being said, if you found this lecture useful, helpful, educational, insightful and enlightening, please subscribe to the channel here on YouTube and also on the podcast. Leave a like while you’re at it, I really like likes because if you actually like, like the video or like the lecture, please like cause it supports the channel. And if you have any questions about this leave it in the comment section and I’ll do my best to answer your questions. And also if you haven’t joined the Discord server please do the link is in the description. We did a Q and A sessions off of the Discord. Everyone puts their questions in the Q and A channel. And I will answer those questions on our next Q and A session, which I believe is scheduled three weeks from now. And then also our Bay Area Meetup Group for this community is also available. And that link is also in the descriptions so anyway, good luck to all of you with learning how to type people and trying to identify the interaction styles. Remember success for the Type Grid comes with you first identify someone’s interaction style and then you identify their temperament, and then as soon as you do that like times tables, you immediately know they’re type. Hundred percent accurate. You don’t have to worry about some stupid test. And within seconds of coming into contact with a human being, you know what type they are, you know how they think, you know how they feel, you know where their fear exists, you know where their worry exists. You know what makes them really happy. You know how to interact with them for the better to get the absolute best possible or optimal result as a result of interacting with them right? That was like word soup there but anyway. But that’s the point so good luck to you folks with identifying interaction styles. This is the last lecture on interaction styles and then we’re gonna be talking about temperament in the next lecture so with all that being said, you folks have a good night.

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