CS Joseph Responds
Welcome to CS Joseph Responds, I’m your host Chase, here to answer your questions on any topic Jungian analytical psychology or the Four Sides of the Mind, also known as Four Sides Dynamics. Today’s question and it comes from Quora is can an ENFJ or ESFJ be married to an INTJ? Excellent question. But other people have answered this question, so let’s examine their answers, shall we? So we have the first, I’m actually gonna do these from the bottom now because they’re actually older questions. So William Smith answered this question on January 1st, 2018. He claims he’s an ENTJ, a long-time student of Jung and psychological type, okay. He says, “certainly, the most difficult hurdle “will be for each to understand the way “in which the other makes decisions. “A T type makes decisions based on abstract logic,” no that’s not true. “An F type on a set of values.” Okay yeah, but which set of values? There’s two sets of values. “Which are often imbued with strong emotional ties.” Obviously, but again, which set of values? “Once each understands the other, things will go smoother.” No, not necessarily, but I understand your point, fair enough. “I’m a T type and my partner is an F type, “so I understand this well.” No, you don’t understand anything because you’re relying on the MBTI letter dichotomies and they’re completely and utter bogus. Because you’re even talking about it proves to me that regardless of you being a long-time student of Jung and psychological type that you actually don’t know what you’re talking about. And probably shouldn’t be answering this question on Quora whatsoever. I hope I don’t see you anywhere else on Quora as we continue to do this. “The second, which is a bit easier, “is the detail orientation of an S type, “versus the big picture orientation of an N type.” This is typical MBTI spittle that again doesn’t actually mean anything. “And finally with two J types coming at decisions “from two very different bases “vigorous debate is inevitable.” Oh there’s more. “And can be acrimonious without mutual understanding.” Okay, again, not true and I don’t know, I mean it’s people like this that starts to make you think from a socionics duality standpoint that an ISFJ, or he’s an ENTJ he claims he’s an ENTJ, whatever, I mean he probably is since he’s relying on the MBTI letter dichotomies, but who knows. You could probably make an argument that he should be with an ISFP relationship. Which would actually be like the absolute worst pairing for him whatsoever because it’s like your polar opposite and why would you do that to yourself? But apparently with the way he’s arguing his points and 474 people viewed this, I pity the fool. I don’t think this is remotely useful whatsoever. So no thank you Mr. William Smith, your question is wrong and inaccurate and no thank you. But then we get to a different answer from Anna Butler who claims to be an INTJ and her only credential here is just INTJ so I guess that automatically means we have to listen to her because she’s part of the obvious INTJ master race, right? You know what I’m saying? And she goes, quote, “of course they can, “I rather suspect you’re wondering if they should.” Okay, good, all right this answer has promise. “My husband is an ESFJ,” of course he is. “For some reason I seem to be drawn to them.” Okay, yeah, #noshitsherlock because the reason why you’re so drawn to an ESFJ is because they’re your bronze pair and statistically speaking a bronze pair is the technically the most common and the most successful marriage between all the types. Bronze pairs, okay? So that’s INTJ, ESFJ, right? That’s INFJ, ESTJ, okay? That’s ENFJ, ISTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ types relationships, you know what I’m saying? ENFP, ISTP, right? Okay, those are bronze pair relationships, they follow that same pattern. “We’ve been together for almost 15 years “and married for almost seven.” Okay, yeah that makes sense. “So far our relationship is still going strong. “But like any relationship it takes work,” true, “he appreciates that I’m not one of those constantly moody, “temperamental women who uses emotional blackmail “to get what she wants.” Which actually can happen from an INTJ, but that’s fair. Although emotional blackmail is kind of more of a philosopher thing. So, philosopher types are STJs and NFPs, so be aware. “I don’t sulk or pout if he can’t read my mind “or know what I want.” You’re just saying that you’re direct. Okay, yes, you’re an INTJ, she sounds like an INTJ for sure, and she’s being direct, which is great. But her husband’s obviously informative so he’s more the one who’s more likely to use emotional blackmail than actually she is which is hilarious to me. Oh wait, she says in the next sentence, I’m pretty direct and honest, so is he. Okay wait a minute, are you sure he’s an ESFJ? Are you sure? Because they’re not always, I mean they’re triple informative, so they’re not direct, and they’re pretty honest but they’re not direct. She says “we have ground rules for socializing, “since he’s friends with just about everyone in the world,” okay that’s typical, “while I’m not,” okay typical. “If he gives me enough notice “I make the effort most of the time, “if notice is short, I’m allowed to bow out.” Very fair and very healthy for this relationship. “He’s a really sporty, outdoorsy sort, “I’m more of an indoor pet, “so we try to accommodate our differences,” thank you for being honest. “We’re each free to follow our own interest, “but we also try to find thing to enjoy together.” Sure. “In fact we set up a list of activities to share. “Once a month we do something new as a couple “and we get to choose five activities each year. “It can’t be something the other person “would be super uncomfortable doing “like skydiving or poetry recitals.” I don’t know why anyone would do poetry recitals in this relationship, but okay. “But the idea is to challenge each other “and build new memories and experiences, “it’s been really fun “and keeps our relationship feeling fresh.” Okay, fair enough. “Overall we tend to balance each other out. “He’s the yin to my yang.” Okay, you spelled that wrong, but I mean who cares. “He’s better at instigating communication,” obviously ’cause ESFJs are starter types “so he pushes us to talk things out and work through them. “His F also makes him quite open “to compromise and move forward.” Gross, why are you talking about the letter dichotomies? That’s so gross. “So we don’t butt heads as I might with a fellow T.” Okay, this is disgusting, stop. Like seriously stop. “That said, he doesn’t let me walk all over him, “which as much as it may frustrate me at the time “I really appreciate.” Yeah ’cause most women do that. Women have this problem where they like to self sabotage their relationships and just be like, oh to my man, I want you to worship me and give me all of your attention and all of your resources and give me all of yourself to me. And then the man buys into that bullshit and then actually starts worshiping his woman and then all of the sudden she starts losing respect for him because he’s worshiping her. Instead of taking care of himself and taking responsibility to meet his own needs and focusing on his own work and his own career and his own job and his own purpose in life. Because apparently he’s made her his purpose which just causes her to lose respect for him. And then the relationship falls apart, when she was the one who instigated that to begin with. Yeah, women, by the way, don’t do that to your husbands or you’re gonna break up your own marriage and it’s gonna be your own damn fault. And if you start accusing him of not wanting to be with you anymore, well actually it’s technically on you to begin with. Because you should honestly figure it out. And men, if you actually fall into that trap, you’re idiots and probably don’t deserve being in a relationship with a woman to begin with. You might wanna figure that out too. “Where we tend to frustrate each other” okay, fair enough. “The fact that were both Js also helps. “We’re both planners “and are good at developing contingency plans. “There are seldom last minute changes, which is a godsend.” Okay, I’ll give you that even though you’re talking about Js, which is dumb, but at the same time, you’re technically right, so fair enough. “Where we tend to frustrate each other “I know I can be stubborn. “Especially when I’m convinced I’m right.” yeah, you can be convinced with your Te beliefs but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. “He can be moody and overly sensitive” says the INTJ, are you kidding me? You have Fi child, you’re one of the most moody of all the types, what are you even talking about? “He can be quite pessimistic, “despite having a happy-go-lucky kinda guy” I mean, pot calling the kettle black. You’re an INTJ, right? You’re supposed to be pessimistic with Te parent or are your admitting that you’re irresponsible with your Te parent and it’s underdeveloped? Is that what you’re doing here? I wonder. “While I look for silver linings, “he’s convinced they’re lead and will poison us.” Okay, let me translate what that means. ESFJs they’re very concrete and they’re very focused on their own experience and they get very scared of new things and unfamiliar territory. Now, the reason why you’re saying it is incorrect but why it’s happening, that’s why, so I’ll give you that. “I’m very particular about “how I like things done, AKA control freak.” Yeah, okay welcome to INTJs. “He gets frustrated when I think out loud “and mistakes my thoughts for decisions “‘but you said’ “no I was just testing ideas out loud, “nothing was set in stone.” Oh that’s hilarious, an INTJ actually admitting that. You know what, it only admit that when it suits them. “I get frustrated when he constantly repeats “the same details of the story.” Yeah, because ESFJs are literally captain obvious or president obvious or admiral obvious or the most obvious person that exists because they have to experience everything themselves which means they have to say it and recite everything you say in order for them to experience it themselves. “I get frustrated when he constantly repeats “the same details of the story.” You know, okay fair enough. “At the end of the day, “it’s all about communication and mutual compromise.” Yes. “Which isn’t about caving in or denying your own needs,” well said. “but finding a way to a solution you can both live with.” Great. “I love that I don’t have an echo chamber in my husband.” Yes but, are you too lazy to do your own research? I wonder because if you’re doing that, he may not have an echo chamber in his head and it’s usually because he’s too scared about him knowing the wrong thing to begin with because he’s Ti inferior. But are you actually being responsible and doing the proper research yourself to make sure he has the proper input for proper decision making? Because if you’re not, you’re just as guilty of being ignorant, so don’t do that, careful. “That I have a really kind, decent, honest, loving man “who can challenge the way I think and approach the world. “That I have someone who allows me to grow as a person.” fantastic. “And I hope I offer him the same things.” So do I. “I stop him from becoming too serious and rule-bound, “he keeps me from limiting my experiences “by pushing me into new territory. “Overall, we work together very well.” Okay, thank you for your very long answer, Anna Butler. I’m gonna give this answer a B- compared to other answers that I’ve seen before. So thank you for that. So can an ENFJ or an ESFJ be married to an INTJ? Well, the answer to that question is absolutely an ESFJ can, in fact it is probably statistically the most successful marriage and the most common marriage for ESFJs or INTJs because that’s the known as the bronze pair and they’re constantly in relationships together. They have high sexual, well not high sexual, they have great sexual compatibility great emotional compatibility and they cover each other’s bases. But they don’t really read each other like a book so well that they feel completely exposed to one another, so they can hide certain things or at least claim certain things are their domains within the context of this intimate relationship, but in all seriousness that can also be an advantage and then as a result, they’re able to develop their insecurities a lot better, they feel like they have a lot more room together as a couple whereas there’s not so much room in other relationships. Regardless, statistically it’s an A+ relationship, so I highly recommend ESFJs get with INTJs. Now, do I recommend ENFJs get with INTJs? Hell no. While there is some emotional compatibility, it’s the same emotional compatibility that an ESFJ would have with an INTJ, there’s like zero sexual compatibility. And it’s yeah I’m gonna rail you and the other person’s like yeah I’m gonna rail you, you know what I’m saying? They’re both competing for being on top in a sexual relationship, which is absolutely lame and really really boring. One person will always be unsatisfied, which eventually actually both people in the relationship would be sexually unsatisfied and there’d be absolutely no chemistry whatsoever. It’s like having two painters and no canvasses in the room. And the painter is trying to use the other painter as their canvas and they’re both having brushes and they’re both brushing each other constantly and it’s just creating a huge mess and there’s actually no sexual fulfillment in there whatsoever. Whereas you need an Si user, which is like a canvas, and an Se user, which is like an INTJ or an ENFJ, which is why they shouldn’t be together, Se users should be sexually with Si users in order to have that nice sexual canvas oriented experience, which okay that’s pretty awesome. So the answer to this question is yes to ESFJ, definitely should be married to an INTJ, hell no to an ENFJ being married to an INTJ. And if you are and these are actually your guys’ types, I would actually recommend a divorce and potentially moving on from that relationship whatsoever because it’s not gonna be fulfilling whatsoever and more likely to cause damage to each other and your children and potentially your extended family, and church and anything else. And I think you probably should just be wise and not actually have that relationship to begin with and definitely don’t say yes when presented with that ring. Move on to somebody else to be presented with a ring from someone better. Hopefully an ESFJ if you are an INTJ, so. Just keep that in mind guys. This compatibility is a serious issue. If you want to learn more about compatibility you can look at my other channel, CS Joseph here on YouTube for that as well. So if you’d like a chance at your question being answered on this channel, please post it on Quora and tag me or leave it as a comment below. If you want a guaranteed answer for your question, become a silver patron at csjoseph.life/Patreon and post your question in our private Q&A discord channel where I’m answering all your questions during a private livestream every month. Please also make sure to like and subscribe to support the channel, we really appreciate it. Anyway, with all that being said, I’ll see you guys tonight.