EgoHacking Via Cognitive Origins and the Golden Rule
“Ultimately, Social Engineering is proof that you care.” — Robert Potts
We all want something. Each of us is hard-wired for the pursuit of our psychological needs and the realization of our deeper spiritual natures.
Whether you are searching for Justification, Intimacy, Satisfaction, Reverence, Authority, Validation, Discovery, or Purpose, the pathway of our intentions and behaviors leads back to one source: our Cognitive Origin.
In light of launching the course, EgoHacking By Text (or EBT), we are beginning to see the fringes of how foundational the Origins are when applied to social engineering. Cognitive Origins are a more fundamental form of unlocking someone than just targeting their Cognitive Functions. Origins represent the unified theme that underpins a person’s functions.
And remember, social engineering, at its root, is itself truly neutral and nothing more than purposeful and skillful social interaction.
This article will serve the purpose of demonstrating and exploring a little nugget that Chase shared in EBT. The Origins, the Golden Rule, and social engineering cross at THIS juncture.
Disclaimer: if the term “Social Engineering” triggers thoughts and accusations of “Manipulation!” and “Conniving, evil masterminds!” then read Here to learn how your misconceptions are hurting those you care about most. As our own Robert Potts also commented, “Anyone who says they don’t want to be socially engineered is lying to themselves.”
The uncomplicated truth of social interaction is that all social interaction is manipulation. And what is the alternative? To be silent and “absolve” oneself of being manipulative?
Even silence is manipulation — and arguably among the most powerful tools in social engineering. To interact socially is to manipulate. But, what we do within the borders of that “manipulation,” through our skill and intention, is where the battleground of ethics emerges.
Beyond that, we are here to discuss the practical concepts of how to social engineer effectively, so that we can get what we want and need, and so that we can provide others with what they want and need.
The Golden Rule is ….
The Golden Rule is the cornerstone principle for effective Social Engineering.
“In everything, therefore, treat others the same way you want them to treat you.”
Or, you may have heard it, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Or you may have learned it “Treat others like you’d like to be treated.” No matter how you say it, the underlying premise is the same. And yet, most miss the point of this rule.
Many of us make a critical mistake when we interpret and apply the Golden Rule. What is the mistake? To assume that everyone wants the same thing we want and wants to be treated the same way we wish to be.
I had a moment in high school where I was sitting on the tables in the cafeteria and I was watching people move by me as if I was a detached observer. I had just gotten out of a discussion-driven class after which I suddenly felt completely disconnected from my classmates. Sitting there, I had the following epiphany, “They don’t think the same way I do.”
Up until that point in my life, I had been using the Golden Rule how most people do — treat others the exact way I want to be treated. But most other people do not want to be treated exactly how I want to be, just as you don’t want to be treated the exact way others want to be.
But here lies a key social engineering insight.
This typical interpretation of the Golden Rule — “I want x so I’ll provide x to others.” — comes NATURALLY to many people. Observe someone’s behavior, and they often reveal the keys to the very thing they want, based on how they treat others.
The typical interpretation of the Golden Rule is NO DIFFERENT from Cognitive Projection. And Cognitive Projection is an inability to properly distinguish oneself from others.
This is typically an unconscious use of the Golden Rule. Watch someone closely enough, and they will reveal how they want to be treated. Those who give acceptance freely are searching for it desperately. Those who search out other’s opinions are hoping others will ask for theirs.
Matthew 7:12, Reinterpreted
The scripture is NOT saying, “Oh, I’m an INFP and I want authority, therefore I treat everyone else like they want authority.”
WRONG!
The scripture IS saying, “If I, as an INFP, want authority, what would that other person, an INTJ, want?” And, FURTHER, “How would I want to be treated IF I WERE THEM, and IF I were seeking Reverence?”
Matthew 7:12, accounting for Cognitive Origins, becomes: “In everything, therefore, treat others the same way you would want them to treat you IF YOU WERE THEM AND HAD THEIR COGNITIVE ORIGIN.”
The takeaway? If you want to apply the Golden Rule effectively, realize that there are eight fundamental and distinct psychological motivations that drive a human being.
And if you want to apply Matthew 7:12, acquiring the knowledge of what those eight motivations are, how to identify who has which, and when and how to apply them is ESSENTIAL. Welcome to the eight Cognitive Origins.
Cognitive Origins and EgoHacking
How do we apply the knowledge of Cognitive Origins to Social Engineering? If you’re interacting with a Reverence-type, should you simply fall to the ground and worship the dirt they walk upon?
Or do you walk around telling an ISTP “You’re smart, you’re smart, you’re smart!” on repeat?
If you’re interacting with an Intimacy type, is disrobing to titillate that Deadly Sin of Lust the best play?
Some of these strategies may work for you in certain situations. But all of them lack the context and sophistication that Cognitive Origins provide. And this depth is unlocked through the Octagram.
The Origins and the Octagram: the “What” and “How”
Practically, knowing someone’s Origin is useful. This knowledge, at a bare minimum, tells what not to do. For example, knowing that disrespecting a Reverence type will blow it with them is very helpful when dealing with ESFPs and INTJs.
But going another layer deeper reveals the specific strategies for daily skillful interactions with the 16 types.
Cognitive Origin reveals WHAT a person wants. But a person’s Octagram — their preferred poles — reveals HOW they want their Origin delivered.
If two people’s Cognitive Origin is both meat, and one of them likes beef and the other likes chicken, then that would be how they want their Origin delivered. The Octagram reveals the specific pathway to each of our Origins.
Here is a list of the preferred dishes.
SOUL TEMPLE DYADS
ENFP + ISTJ —
- JUSTIFICATION: ENFPs and ISTJs are seeking to use their awareness of perspectives to decide whether or not behavior from self or others can be excused or rationalized, based on their own moral standard.
- ABSOLUTION: Subconscious Focused (SF) ENFPs and ISTJs lead by taking away the burden of guilt from self and others because they understand why they did what they did.
- WRATH: Unconscious Focused (UF) ENFPs and ISTJs, despite potentially understanding why someone did something, prioritize the enforcement of their moral standard over the flexibility of someone else’s perspective. A “wrong” can only be Justified through punishment.
- IMPARTIALITY: Subconscious Developed (SD) ENFPs and ISTJs focus on “just the facts,” searching to gather all the perspectives and all the relevant information to reach the most rational conclusion.
- DISCRIMINATION: Unconscious Developed (UD) ENFPs and ISTJs lean more on which facts, perspectives, and people they value more, as well as being more prone to dismiss the facts, perspectives, and people they value less.
ESTP + INFJ —
- INTIMACY: ESTPs and INFJs are seeking connection and confidentiality. By drawing close to others, they can better understand themselves.
- CHASTITY: Subconscious Focused (SF) ESTPs and INFJs lead with psychological, emotional, and even spiritual connection, searching to capture the immaterial identity of self and others.
- LUST: Unconscious Focused (UF) ESTPs and INFJs lead by pursuing the objects of their desire (a person, place or thing), which they believe will make them more whole. Lust leads them to build identity through action, in hopes of filling the sense of “lack” by achieving the object of their lust.
- OBJECTIFICATION: Subconscious Developed (SD) ESTPs and INFJs believe they see others as they are and not as they wish to be seen. Objectification simplifies people and relationships into their base categories. SD ESTPs and INFJs have less tolerance for the messy “passion” than their UD counterparts.
- IDOLATRY: Unconscious Developed (UD) ESTPs and INFJs see the best in others, especially those they desire, and wish for others to see the best in them.
HEART TEMPLE DYADS
ENTP + ISFJ —
- SATISFACTION: ENTPs and ISFJs are seeking to be filled up with others’ desires, passions, and sensations. To be the object of others’ passion is what they seek above all.
- COMPASSION: Subconscious Focused (SF) ENTPs and ISFJs see first the pain that exists beneath others’ successes and sorrows. Through empathy, understanding others’ emptiness leads to fullness.
- ENVY: Unconscious Focused (UF) ENTPs and ISFJs first see the lack of “deserving” in others’ successes and sorrows. There is a catharsis found in the injustice of what seems undeserved.
- FANATICISM: Subconscious Developed (SD) ENTPs and ISFJs want to receive Satisfaction through the avenues of their obsessions. From certain foods, brands, and habits, to the apex of religious fervor, they want you to care about what they care about.
- MALEVOLENCE: Unconscious Developed (UD) ENTPs and ISFJs believe that pain and adversity refine a person’s character. Sharing their pain with others, and even causing others pain, feels like a balance of justice. They often treasure those who seek to understand their suffering.
ESFP + INTJ —
- REVERENCE: ESFPs and INTJs are searching for deep admiration and respect from others, especially from those they revere.
- MODESTY: Subconscious Focused (SF) ESFPs and INTJs share the spotlight with others. They achieve respect by treating others with regard.
- VAINGLORY: UF (Unconscious Focused) ESFPs and INTJs try to always be in the spotlight, believing that attention and respect should be given to them wherever they go.
- EGOTISM: Subconscious Developed (SD) ESFPs and INTJs give and receive respect based on accomplishments. Accolades are proof that respect is deserved.
- DESECRATION: Unconscious Developed (UD) ESFPs and INTJs undermine the Ego-investments in others — as with self — and seek to destroy sacred cows so that the best version of a person (self and others) can emerge.
MIND TEMPLE DYADS
ESTJ + INFP —
- AUTHORITY: ESTJs and INFPs are seeking influence and power, and to be regarded as weighty and knowledgeable.
- INITIATIVE: Subconscious Focused (SF) ESTJs and INFPs put forth tremendous effort in chasing their positions of influence.
- SLOTH: Unconscious Focused (UF) ESTJs and INFPs lead with Sloth. While in Sloth, they experience power and authority by maintaining the steadiness over their internal and external world. They may believe they have “arrived” or they may perceive the futility in rigorously pursuing certain achievements. For them, power exists IN stillness.
- CREDULITY: Subconscious Developed (SD) ESTJs and INFPs maintain an extreme open-mindedness to others’ perspectives and are more flexible in finding their path than their UD counterparts. But their open-mindedness is best accessed when an idea is siphoned through the intellectual beliefs of the groups they are a part of. To share a “foreign” idea with a credulous ESTJ or INFP can ring danger.
- MANIFESTATION: Unconscious Developed (UD) ESTJs and INFPs have a strong purpose that drives them toward specific goals. Day to day they embody the type of person they know they will eventually become. There is a certain “density” to UD ESTJs and INFPs, as if no one could puncture a hole in their focus. In the pursuit of their goals, they appear imperturbable.
ENFJ + ISTP —
- VALIDATION: ENFJs and ISTPs are searching for accuracy and correctness in intellectual, personal, and educational pursuits. They seek to be the filter that keeps the charlatans from the door.
- HUMILITY: Subconscious Focused (SF) ENFJs and ISTPs want to be shown what they don’t know. They walk around believing they have much more to learn, even to the point of lacking confidence in their knowledge and skill.
- PRIDE: Unconscious Focused (UF) ENFJs and ISTPs lead with confidence in their skill and knowledge. They believe they have the knowledge they need, or can easily find it, and are much more resistant to being taught by others. Confidence is rarely a problem for UF ENFJs and ISTPs.
- OBSTINANCE: Subconscious Developed (SD) ENFJs and ISTPs hold people to their words and actions. They respond best when you hold them to their words and actions. Being stubborn and even forceful in their stance makes them feel more likely to be validated by an authority. SD ENFJs and ISTPs can be among the most thorough verifiers of all the types.
- ACCOMMODATION: Unconscious Developed (UD) ENFJs and ISTPs focus on adjusting to the circumstances and viewpoints held by the people around them. They give others what they need in order to learn and improve the best. They are more lenient with standards and possess higher flexibility than their Obstinate counterparts,
BODY TEMPLE DYADS
ESFJ + INTP —
- DISCOVERY: ESFJs and INTPs are seeking exploration, novelty, and to both experience and re-experience being on the edge of something new.
- GENERATIVITY: Subconscious Focused (SF) ESFJs and INTPs find Discovery through producing the resources, technologies, motivations, and insights that allow them to find and integrate their personal cutting edge. SF ESFJs and INTPs often find that creating new things leads to even more inspiration.
- GLUTTONY: Unconscious Focused (UF) ESFJs and INTPs lead with consumption. Often bored, uninspired, and unmotivated by production, they consume what is most engaging in front of them. Gluttony can also act as a “refueling” period so that further production is possible. Gluttonous ESFJs and INTPs are more likely to believe their productivity is a scarce resource.
- SERVILITY: Subconscious Developed (SD) ESFJs and INTPs give themselves away to serve other people and explore the things other people value. By being the most helpful, they hope to experience deep gratitude and reciprocation for the effort they put forth.
- HEDONISM: Unconscious Developed (UD) ESFJs and INTPs lead with their curiosity. Hedonism has a mark of independence, where this Dyad gives themselves complete permission to follow whatever trail they wish. Few pathways are off-limits.
ENTJ + ISFP —
- PURPOSE: ENTJs and ISFPs seek specific, often tangible outcomes that are considered “achievements” by self and others. To not be on the path of reaching their inspired goals is to whither away. Identity comes from achievement.
- GENEROSITY: Subconscious Focused (SF) ENTJs and ISFPs invest in projects and people they believe in, often giving away tremendous resources and time to see others thrive.
- GREED: Unconscious Focused (UF) ENTJs and ISFPs invest their resources in themselves, often feeling the need to make up for lost time. They often feel they didn’t have the time or resources in the past. The sprint for their current purpose (goal) is a scarce treasure no one will take from them.
- COMPLACENCY: Subconscious Developed (SD) ENTJs and ISFPs charge ahead, often without fear or caution, to achieve their goals. Strategy comes second to belief, as Complacent ENTJs and ISFPs lead more with inspiration, followed by planning.
- SUBJUGATION: Unconscious Developed (UD) ENTJs and ISFPs are more tactful with their planning than their SD counterparts. Subjugating ENTJs and ISFPs demand effort from others, and often self, to see their achievements reached and their goals fulfilled. Everyone, even self, is a cog in the greater task of the mission.
Looking Forward
Via the Golden Rule, then, a person’s Origin + Octagram reveals the path that we can walk to use the Golden Rule. And, as Chase said on the most recent Season 18 episode, the Golden Rule is actually a Systematic Principle, not an Interest one. Meaning what? That it is best executed when nothing is demanded, or expected, in return.
For the EBT course, which is out now and provides specific tool to not only type but to social engineer anyone where text is used, Chase goes further into the application of Origins. If you’re ready to learn how to EgoHack and give people what they want for their benefit and the benefit of your relationships, click Here for information on the EgoHacking By Text Course.
If you haven’t learned the basics of the eight Deadly Sins per Origin, you can sign up for a Journeyman Subscription Here.
There will be an accompanying masterclass to supplement the material in the EBT course. It will address, among other things, a few lingering questions: Does everyone use all eight Origins in some capacity? If so, in what order? And does one type produce their Origin, while the other type consumes it?
Stay tuned, the EgoHacking has just begun.
Is the conclusions about Cognitive Origin come from reason or just observation?
Are you asking how the Origins were “discovered”? Tons of observation, tons of reason, countless hours of discussion for months, research into various sources of depth psychology, especially the last third of Aion, and the psychological models presented there.
Based, looking forward to for more and deeper post about Origins it in the future!!
Please check my recent CSJ Facebook posts that explain through Socionics why, due to mbti stacking errors, introverted sensors should have the J and P reversed.
Which throws this entire theory off.
Does the change of the label change what functions are being used? Whether an ISTJ (or ISTp, as Socionics would label, right?) the function stack remains the same, no?
Unless it’s agreed upon a group of people, it’s not something people do naturally unless forced or agreed upon right? What made you guys suggest doing it?
The Octagram is the continuation of the Temple content, and is the a more specific iteration of the Temples. But the Temples are the foundation. We’ve felt for a long time that there would inevitably be a “software” equivalent approach to the 4 sides of the mind “hardware” approach. Nurture and nature, yin and yang, will complete each other in the end.
how does being focussed and being developed relate to each other?
can one describe it like the relationship between an end and a means: being focussed (either Subconscious, or Unconscious) is the means, and the being developed ( either subconscious or unconscious) is the end?
Also, l think, I am an INFJ UF/UD, could I develop to SD (Objectification) by focussing on Chastity (SF).
Because maybe to get ones cognitive origin met (for me its intimacy, and understanding myself through connecting to others) could one basically say, that I was unconscious developed (Idolatry) because I wanted to see the best within me..if I want to see me, from a more objective standpoint, I need to develop my Subconscious (SF + SD)..
Chase said one time that being in the unconscious is most of the times because one just had to due to environmental factors, while being in the subconscious comes naturally, because the other two functions are already in the ego…if I wanted to focus and develop my subconscious more, would I have to control the environmental factors, or should I rather withdraw from them, what would be more realistic?
Thank you very much
Hi Sandro,
1) Cognitive DEVELOPMENT is where we have BEEN, whereas Cognitive FOCUS is where we are GOING — or where we are actively seeking to develop more. Cognitive Development is usually the place in one’s mind that is more of a “home base”. Through Nurture, we need to develop tools to cope and survive in our environments (and hopefully thrive), and that is our DEVELOPMENT, the tools we rely on the most.
Development reveals where one stands on comfortably, whereas focus is where you are actively building in the moment. Think of development as the ground floor that is stable, and focus as building out the attic or remodeling a room. Focus is more future oriented, development is more past oriented.
2) So if you are a UD | UF INFJ, then you lead with Idolatry and Lust. If you are interested in developing the other poles, then yes you would learn how to use the Objectification pole (which is no different from using your ESTP Subconscious, you can just frame it as “Objectification”) and Chastity. In the context for UD | UF INFJs specifically, they often need to learn to accept themselves in the same way (or even more) they wish to be accepted by others.
UD | UF types in general, ESPECIALLY the INFJ and ESTP, have insane amounts of self-rejection to deal with. Many types within many Temples deal with self-rejection (as it is also a human phenomena) but it is a constant and visceral burden for Soul Temple Templars in particular.
Objectification can be developed by not assuming that everyone around you is a great person. As Chase told me once, ESTPs often make others “Prove their humanity to them.” That is one approach that is worth thinking about for your development and focus.
Interesting article, I want to know how you Can know if you UD, SD etc.?
SD vs. UD is determined by which SIDE pole you use or rely on more. Being able to perceive that behavior in yourself is sometimes difficult, so getting input or feedback from others tends to provide clarity. I can tell you a bit more if you tell me your type. Otherwise more info can be found in the S7p2 (Deadly Sin) series or in several recent S18 episodes.
Thank you very much for the extensive answer, John!
My pleasure
As you said that self-rejection is quite common between UF/UD types..could one pin it down to the its guidance-functions (critic and trickster) not being responsible enough to guide the nemesis and demon?
especially with regard to the 7th and 8th function (Trickster and Demon) because they are the child and the inferior of the unconscious..If one could focus especially on them (basically the superego), by orbit one can go to the subconscious pole way more effectively, because the superego does not “scream for attention” all the time and holds one back.
You used the metaphor with Development as the stable floor (that on which we build on) and Focus as that with what we build on. Is orbiting (from superego to subconscious) the mechanism by which we actually do that in a realistic way? or do I think to much with my Ti-Child and hope and expect too much with my Ni-hero, and should just use the axis within my ego..
how does the temperament of concrete and abstract plays into that dynamics? Like maybe switching from UF/UD to being SF/SD is quite difficult, because one is not only invested into the given home base, but also because one is invested into the “how” or the way one is invested..with how meaning that one is invested into the temperament style of concrete or abstract..one is invested into one being sensing or into intuitive basically as that is the most known way to ones cognitive origin (and connection to God maybe)
Another way to effectively switch from UD to SF maybe would be to switch what we value within a temple? Like how we want the cognitive origin delivered by us ourself..
when I lead with UD: Idolatry I should know that “it leads with my heart” (as it is the Heart temple pole), and with UF: Lust, which leads with the body (as it is the Lust temple pole)…which is also the deadly sin, but also “the fuel of desire” (as I read the outline of S18-E24, the soul temple cognitive origin)
..thus, I should lead more with soul (SF) and mind (SD) by “valuing them” more, in the sense that one could really tap into the cognitive origin better..then maybe switching to the temperament from intuitive to sensing seems way more attractive and fulfilling and not like an ego-loss/death (which is maybe also a reason why one self-rejects a lot of times as we reject the different ways to have our cognitive origin met, and looking to the outside..
1) The main reason UD | UF especially face self rejection is because their environment has basically made their Ego untenable to live in. They’ve been kicked out of the house so that their Shadow becomes the closest to a home they can have. It’s like when a son or daughter gets kicked out of their parents house and has to go live with their grandparents or aunt. It’s their new “home” but it’s not REALLY home, is it?
2) What you are suggesting about the Guidance functions is certainly possible, however the sadness for UD | UF types is that they shouldn’t really be expected to have their Critic and Trickster so developed when they are young. Yes, the Critic and Trickster are guidance functions, but they are “supposed” to be the FINAL guidance functions that people master. They take a lot of effort to wield properly when you are forced to learn them when you’re younger.
3) What you are suggesting about reaching the Subconscious through the Superego is a very impressive insight. Chase came to this insight just recently, where he realized he was digging so far into his Superego it was developing his Subconscious through Orbit. So yes, if one is UD | UF, that may be the best way to develop the Subconscious.
4) I see you wrestling with several different approaches to developing the Sub poles of Objectification. I believe that part of the answer you are seeking is evident in the way you are asking the questions. In the very question you are trying to figure out how you can be something different than you already are — a type of self-rejection.
I think the hardest lesson for Templars, especially Soul Temple Templars, is there is only so much you can do with your own will. We are mirrors, and we need something to mirror in order to change. And it WILL change us. We are changed from the inside out AFTER we have something to mirror from the outside in (with a few exceptions).
So I would recommend thinking about certain people, characters, celebrities, and leaders that you admire and are naturally drawn to. I believe those we are pulled to and compelled by have something intrinsic that we need to learn and develop within ourselves.
So if you want to develop your Chastity + Objectification, you could look for and learn from people who already have it. Someone like Hugh Jackman comes to mind, as Chase typed him an ESTP, and I believe he is an SD | SF Octagram.
Lastly, there is the Carl Rodgers’ quote that is applicable here, perhaps never more applicable than to Soul Temple Templars: “The curious paradox is that when I accept myself, just as I am, then I can change.”
Thank you John for this very clear overview! All this origin stuff is truly fascinating. There is one sentence I don’t fully understand though. When explaining ‘envy’ you say: ‘There is a catharsis found in the injustice of what seems undeserved.’ Maybe it’s the double negative that is confusing me. Could you put that into different words? I’d appreciate that.
Small typo, at ‘desecration’ it says: ‘Unconscious Developed (UF)’, which should be UD.
Hi Mirjam,
The internal experience of envy is based on an assumption that someone doesn’t deserve what they have. The “catharsis” that envy produces is similar to “self pity,” feeling almost victimized by the injustice that produced the envy.
People can learn to use their Envy in different ways, such as sparking one’s own motivation to get the thing you Envy, but most people start out with using Envy as a crutch to judge the world, others, and fall into self pity.
Thank you for the correction, it has been fixed.
What does that mean, to prove their humanity?
To make others prove their character to the ESTP.
So happiness in life for esfj and intp dyad is mainly dependent on servitude to others? Like basically everyday to be happy I am providing others with whatever service they value? But we do it for discovery? I always thought it was like love and connection and stuff that drives me but you’re saying it’s just always discovering something? What for?
ESFJs and INTPs who are Subconscious DEVELOPED lead with servility, wanting to help others achieve their passions. These types achieve discovery through “being along for the ride” in being of service to others. These types are extremely helpful and aim to figure out how they can always be more helpful to others, and they obtain satisfaction through directing and supporting others.
UNCONSCIOUS Developed ESFJs and INTPs, while they are capable of seeing where help is needed and applying themselves to that end, are much more driven by their own curiosity, often intellectual, and their Hedonism creates generated exploration and discovery.
In the broad sense, yes, ESFJs and INTPs are looking for Discovery, Exploration, often something shared, that is found on their own personal cutting edge. People and connection and family are often very important to these types, but they are motivating under the greater context of Discovery and exploration.
I do remember being on a journey to discover the truth about the universe and god and all that and then I lost it when I found the internet and what everyone else determined was the truth. After that I went on to learn that what made the most sense which was evolution and survival of the fittest and anything else that didn’t contribute that as having no value. So I assumed that the main goal was reproducing and surviving and competition and that my way was the esfj way. Maybe that’s just me being in my shadow now because if that or something and getting this perspective instead. It feels more like now that I live for others and the drive is to please but I wouldn’t have thought I just do that to discover being that everything is centered around the libido I thought. I would have thought it was a strategy for my type to “pass on my genes”.
Also this article is about each types Ni right? How is it practical for me if I don’t use Ni in my ego?
Thanks as always for your responses
I can see you shifting focus throughout your life on different themes of discovery, moving from intellectual exploration to an outward focus of living “for others”. I feel like being able to access both of these themes can scratch two of the deeper itches of the ESFJ’s curiosity.
As for the “Ni” types, are you asking if I’m relating the pursuit of Cognitive Origins to one’s Ni? I would say that Ni users pursue their Cognitive Origin through desire, whereas Si users pursuit over seeking an experience, in the equivalent “Si” way.
Though, incidentally, you could make an argument that the “Trickster” function is, archetypically, inherently closest to the Origin of discovery/exploration. And with you Trickster being Ni, that’s certainly a unique source of exploration for you.
Also, if your pursuits in life developed in that way, it sounds like you led with your Hedonism (Mind Temple) pole for a portion of your life, following your intellectual curiosity to explore the cosmos, and then shifting to focusing more on supporting others and inviting their passion, more of the Servility (Heart Temple) pole. You could be a UD | SF ESFJ.
Didn’t mean to post that three items. Basically all the same questions. You can delete the first two but keep the longest third one out of my last replies. Thank you
Thank you for the reply and great read. I do feel burned out or at and end of the intellectual pursuit as there isn’t anymore information out there to add or sort out.
And yes I always wondered if the system you guys have came from Ne hero’s and therefore they were naturally pulling Ni from everyone. I was trying apply this information to my life and hit a roadblock on how being that I didn’t know if it was practical since I’m Ni blind.
I grew up with a bad taste in my mouth about servility and was bitter that my happiness in life deals with basically living for others and serving them. To me it contradicted having ones own life but I also didn’t mind either which was contradicting.
So if I interpreted this article right and servility is really just like a way for discovery it was a nice thing to hear so that I don’t think I was just born to give others a life but what I want in life is I guess to experience it all? Please correct me if I’m wrong. I also thought that it was to just survive and reproduce honestly.
But yeah I think I am the type you stated and I guess I’m bored now and haven’t been in enough relationships and see the majority of my life heading more SF esfj.
Concluding with this is there any practicality to knowing this as well as is there a difference between genders?
In knowing your octagram? I feel its one of the most important insights someone can know, because understanding your nurture gives you the insight to see where you came from and likely your roadmap to where you are going. The gender topic is still being explored. Likely more on that soon (:
When I think of people that I know of each type, all of these make perfect sense and it’s amazing. Like how I’ve always been amazed at how many shows my esfj friend has watched. This stuff is so life changing and I can’t believe it isn’t more mainstream. Such a shame, but hopefully it is one day.
People tend to thing its the “big” signs that make up and confirm someone’s type. But it really is the small things — like binging shows — that put all the pieces together and reveal what someone is really seeking via their type’s motivations.
I am entj superego focused any solution to get out ?
We believe that the “UD | UF” Octagram — previously called “superego focus” — can be transformed by using both your Living Virtue and Your Aspirational Pole in an external, giving it to others, way. So for the ENTJ, it would be thinking of ways to be generous to others. In addition, using the “Complacent” aspirational pole, more focused on the ISFP Subconscious and making art, will help pull you to access the other tools in your psyche.
Hey I am curious if I relate to absolution the most out of anything else in the article, does that mean I am soul temple. I also relate to objectification and idealization to some extent… I think I am a UF/UF INTJ however, does UD/UF INTJ cause me relate to these things or am I likely a member of soul temple?
Hi John, I find it really difficult to determine my own octagram as an INFP. I feel I could literally be any of these octagram combinations based on different periods of my life. My upbringing has been pretty much contradictory, I feel I was not enabled to be in my ego, but also spoiled at the same time. The only thing I am almost certainly sure is that my focus is currently UF, and I want to switch it to SF. As an INFP I hardly relate to other INFPs. I am also a very different person according to the people I’m around, and recently I have kinda self-isolated and the only person I’m around causes me to be UF and be in my superego almost constantly. I know that the INFP octagram lecture is coming soon, but could you give me some more insights into determining the my octagram?
is Miaimei,
Self analysis for the Octagram tends to be extremely difficult — just as self analysis for any psychological insight tends to be difficult. There are some broad ways you can utilize to gather some insight. The octagram poles and the 4 sides of the mind, for example, correlate entirely. So, are you an INFP that heavily relies more on research and on the sole pursuit of positions of authority (ESTJ Subconscious), or do you lead more with a care-giving, visionary role (the ENFJ Shadow)?
If you are developed in the ESTJ Sub that = Credulity, and likewise for Manifestation and the ENFJ Shadow.
Also, we are releasing an article analyzing Robert Greene’s Octagram this weekend … and, *hint hint* his type and yours may have something in common (; There should be some insights in that article that can lead to some more clarity.
Thank you for the answer, John. You seem to suggest that I’m sd uf (I wonder if based on that comment alone?), which could be true, but also not.
I do believe that my subconscious is more developed than my unconscious as I’m very good at research and very open-minded. However, I have a strong Ni vision of my and my daughter’s life. Also, many things have been said about how ud is related to trauma and incompatibility with the people that raised us, and I am sure I had plenty of those as well. Either cognitive development isn’t related to trauma, or I can’t otherwise explain how is it possible of me to become sd after what I’ve been through.
I feel as though labelling myself/being labelled as sd uf equates to denying all the pain in my life and allowing people to see me as immature and spoiled without even verifying whether that is true or not; instead, what happens with the octagram is that people look for specific clues that validate the theory. This is very disrespectful towards my human experience. Perhaps I would be more willing to accept my octagram if Chase could clear out these stupid and divisive stereotypes in his lectures, instead of fuelling them. People in his community feel so entitled to judge others based on what they assume to be the truth (when the truth serves them well, of course). The only truth, really, is that you can’t know someone’s life based on type and octagram alone, and being ud doesn’t always mean you have had a tougher life than someone who is sd. Quite the opposite, at least in my case.
I am an infj , but i want to know if my thoughts about my octagram is right , because in the past In my childhood i had a bad Ni i just think about playing making fun and stuff , i had a low self esteem and a good confidence i was happy , and I always outperform everybody and i seek validation for my good performance as well , and in my high school years i start seeking maturity and sharing my wise thoughts to my friends and then i organized my wolf pack , and my fear related to my performance start showing up , I spend a lot of time in the mirror or deciding what i have to wear or just adjusting my hair , and if I have a drama show I prefer to not inviting my family or my loved ones because I have fear if I didn’t perform well I don’t see it encouraging i see it the opposite , (if I am afraid idk why I start acting like this alpha and my voice become loud and all the fear disappear do you think it’s my estp sub?) But for the question is that means that I am an infj SD/UF?
There is a contradiction between the information here and in EYF-Masterclass. Specifically, in EYF the virtues and vices are described as being pushed or pulled depending on focus. For example, in EYF, the UDUF ENTP/INTJ example says that they extravert vainglory and introvert modesty, which is to boost up others and be modest themselves. However this page implies that UF INTJs introvert vainglory and extravert modesty.
What’s the correct way to look at this?
Our understanding has evolved slightly since the article was released. The answer to your question depends on what you are trying to do. If you are trying to Social Engineer, then the answer is in the Masterclass, in terms of what you can provide the other person.
But where someone is developed (UD INTJs leading with Desecration, for example), they are naturally seeking for others to embrace their Desecration, etc. and be strong enough to take it and respond to it.The Octagram isn’t a binary of either/or in terms of which poles someone uses, but “how” they use their poles. And those poles are always being used for some purpose, conscious or not.