S9E3 – How Do ESTPs Compare To ISTPs?

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Chase: 00:02 Hey, it’s CS Joseph with CSJoseph.life. Doing another lecture on type comparisons because that’s what people are asking me to do these days. I do have a regular schedule which is doing social compatibility right now. I’m also going to be jumping into a Sacred Masculinity and Sacred Femininity as well according to Egyptian tradition because it’s pretty dope for Human Nurture, but I would like to get some more user requested, lecturers in and right now that is Type Comparison, so I have four seasons for the podcast and for different playlists for the YouTube channel to focus on Type Comparisons and right now we’re going to be doing the E versus I. I already did the ESTJ. We’re doing the ESTP again today because for some reason I really liked talking about ESTP’s. Given the fact that three out of the last four lectures have been focusing on ESTP’s and I’m just about to blow my brains out over how ESTP this is, this channel is getting right now.

Chase: 01:03 But got to get through anyway because I’m a completionist because INTJ Shadow, if you know what I mean. Because I have to get it all done so that we have it available for everyone to watch and learn from. Of course. So, with that mind, let us do a deep dive, the Extraverted type put against the Introverted type. And today it is STP’s, Aka the ESTP, the Persuader, and the ISTP, the Craftsman. So let’s start talking about the ESTP again. In Charge Structure Type, Direct Initiating Control, Interaction Style for the ISTP is Direct Responding Movement. They are a See it Through type, also known as Chart the Course. Really focused on finishing. They are both artisans, Aka SP’s, freedom based creators. Awesome. So super similar types and yet very inherently different. And obviously that’s why you, the audience have been asking me to do a comparison video of these two types to help people type themselves and get to better understand themselves as a result of doing videos like this.

Chase: 02:11 So with that in mind, let’s do a deep dive of how these two types of work. So ESTP Ego, ESTP Subconscious is INFJ. Unconscious, also known as the Shadow is the ISTJ and the Super Ego is the ENFP. Whereas the ISTP, we have the Craftsman as the Ego, ISTP, which, and then we have the Subconscious, which is the ENFJ Mentor. The Shadow is the ESTJ Overseer and the Super Ego is the INFP, very similar. They’re both very logical. They both live in the moment. They both do whatever they want. They both want to give people reality checks and do loyalty checks on people and give people a good experience and they want to make people feel good and they want to be seen as a very caring individual even though the ISTP more so than the ESTP gets a really bad rap about being careless or uncaring.

Chase: 03:04 For example, my ISTP cousin would get “educated” by his ISTJ wife about how soulless he is sometimes. Well that’s because he lacks Fi because he has Fi demon. Fi Demon is just like, I’m sorry, ISTP’s don’t really give a damn about moral decision making. They care about other people around them having morals, but they don’t really care about having morals themselves because they’re so focused on being ethical and making others feel good that they don’t really care to make themselves feel good as a result. There is a lack of moral behavior. “Oh, but Mr. CS Joseph, are you saying ISTP’s are immoral?” Yes. That’s basically what I’m saying. The thing is, if you want an ISTP to behave morally, you surround them with, you guessed it, “moral people,” people Fi users, you put Fi users around Fe users and the Fe users start behaving with, like, Fi.

Chase: 03:57 Even though they don’t have Fi because Fe likes to eat Fi and it’s absorbing that Fi power and then it becomes Ethics inside the human soul and it’s they’re both behaving morally. That’s how it works. So the ESTP, Extraverted Sensing here, they’re all about the moment, all about that physical awareness, all about that short term memory. They have a huge pool of short term memory. The problem is, with short term memory, because it’s like memory in a computer, new information comes in and it pushes the old information out and they have a smaller hard drive with their Si Nemesis, which is the past, a person’s connection to the past. You know, that long term memory and whatnot? That connection to the past is a little bit shorter. Well that basically means they don’t have as much hard drive space to fit past memories on.

Chase: 04:43 So they are constantly worrying about their past all the time. Whereas the ISTP is more critical towards their past and critical towards their experience. That’s why the ISTP he walks around saying quote, and this is a direct quote from an ISTP, my former ISTP boss and he said, quote, “I have a memory like an elephant” because he’s basically trying to convince me, Si critic trying to convince me, that he remembers more than me. You know, Si Inferior, not true. Just, so like, when you’re in that situation and a STP is trying to tell you that they remember more than you, just make sure you write everything down and all their failures and throw it in their face and be like, hey, look at this huge schedule of you like, failing to remember something I kept track of every time you’ve been forgetful, just to prove to you how forgetful you are.

Chase: 05:29 Of course they’re going to hate you when you do that, but they’re Ti Parent/Hero can’t ignore the truth that they are forgetful because, guess what, they are. They’re so focused on living in the moment that long-term memories kind of seems to escape them after awhile because they’re trying to keep everything in the short term memory because right now is what’s relevant. What is, is relevant with Introverted Sensing, but what if with the metaphysics of Ni, not really so much. They’re all about, what if “I,” What if I do this? What if I do that? Okay, but they’re not about like, what if “we,” you know, or the general, what if? They, they, they kind of shy away from that because that’s like theory, Voodoo land, vaporware land. They don’t like talking about Voodoo theory, vaporware. They’re just not going to do it. In fact, they’re gonna look at you like you’re a crazy person.

Chase: 06:12 You know, it’s people like this, that society starts giving Intuitives ADHD drugs because they’re not normal, you know what I mean? Yet, at the same time, SP’s also come under fire with that because they live so much in the moment and then that’s because, “Wow, they’re always moving too much. We just need to calm down, calm down and give them some Ritalin. Right? You know, then he’ll start behaving like an SJ. Why? Well, it’s because, you know, we’re having an SP Ego and we get Ritalin, so that puts them in, you know, SJ Unconscious. So then they’re more mellow at school.” And of course that leads to long term psychological damage, much less fiscal damage for their health. And yet people think that’s a good thing. Oh, I have an idea. How about we be more tolerant to all the types by knowing all the types and accepting them for who they are instead of trying to drug them and turn them into people that they’re not.

Chase: 06:58 That would go over well. Oh, but no, we can’t do that in First World Society because First World Society is structured in such a way where people’s lives are destroyed instead of being healed, or instead of being saved, or instead of having a quality of life, because that’s what we do here. Isn’t that little weird, that Third World countries for some reason or a little bit more happier than the rest of us in the First World. Huh? I wonder why that is. Anyway, so Se Hero, live in the moment. Ti Hero is for Logic. ISTP’s care about logic. Now, between the two of them, ISTP’s kind of get a bad rap because people are like, wow, you’re such an ass because you always have to be right all the time. You know, ESTP’s get that a little bit, but not as much as ISTP students because Ti Hero firmly believes so much in what it believes to be true or false that it will not allow anyone else to deal with that.

Chase: 07:48 Why is that? Well, it’s because they have Te Nemesis and they are, ISTP’s literally walk around, worried that everyone around them is stupid. And it gets to a point when they’re coming into contact with other people that they will literally stupid zone people and then just jumped to the conclusion that “This person is stupid and then I will not have anything to do with them. Right?” And then there and then that person’s like there forever. Like I was stupid zoned by an ISTP once and it took me two years to get out of the stupid zone until I finally proved myself to this ISTP who was above me and stature and whatnot. It was a nightmare. Now luckily, ESTP’s don’t do that because they have Te Critic. Yes, they’re very critical of other people’s thinking. Yes they kind of walk around the same way, thinking everyone else is stupid, but they’re not going to like enforce that.

Chase: 08:34 They’re not going to jump to that conclusion. They’re actually slightly more open minded than the ISTP, which sounds a little weird because he have ISTJ Shadow and ISTJ’s are, are typically, you know, the type that is like not openminded but ESTP’s for some reason when it isn’t Shadow mode. Unconscious mode ISTJ Shadow Unconscious is actually more openminded than the ISTJ Ego, which I find really weird. Oh, it gets even better. Same thing with the ESTJ, the ESTJ Ego is more like open minded, but because it’s in the Shadow mode, it’s actually more closed minded for the ISTP kind of funny how shifting the different transitions of the mind within cognition, changes the attitudes of the types just slightly and you know, you can even complicate it further with gender. Why not? So, but anyway, so yes, Logic is very important, and Logic is Logical Parent.

Chase: 09:34 So ESTP’s, because are very pessimistic with their Logic and this is what causes them to kind of push back with things that they don’t believe is true and they will really defend the truth of What Is. And it’s actually kind of, it’s super difficult to convince the ISTP of anything that they don’t already know, but in a lot of cases that actually can be even more difficult with ESTP’s, unless of course the ESTP sees other people believing it, seeing other people learning from it or doing it that you’re trying to convince them, then they’re Ti Parent will accept its Truth. Whereas the ISTP doesn’t really care if other people are already doing it. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. That’s kind of why it’s a harder sell on the ISTP side than it is on the ESTP side. Which is kind of interesting because ISTP’s have Ni Child which is literally like liquid luck, Ni Child.

Chase: 10:26 That’s the liquid luck cognitive function. It’s the Child who went across the minefield. I’ve said it a million times, and the Child always makes it across the minefield even though the Child could have died but somehow makes it there by some miracle. And that’s Ni Child. There are so many close calls with ISTP’s and ISFP’s and you’re like, “How the hell did they survive that?” But somehow they did. That’s because they have Ni Child, liquid luck. They always know what they want. ISTP’s always know what they want, and they always focus on what they want, and they always get what they want eventually. Whereas ESTP’s, that’s different. They’re very afraid about what they want. They’re very insecure with what they want and because that leads to failure to launch syndrome, you are not going to find an ISTP with failure to launch syndrome.

Chase: 11:10 That’s a huge difference. If you’re not sure what you want and you know you’re an ESTP, you’re trying to figure it out, which one of these are, if you know what you want, what you want, and you make decisions based on what you want regularly, you’re an ISTP. If you don’t know what you want or you’re afraid of wanting the wrong thing, afraid that you’re gonna, make the wrong decision which leads to inaction and it’s consistent. You’re an ESTP, always be careful of Ni Inferior because it can leave you in such a rut because you just don’t know what you want. That’s why you need to be around Ne users, especially Ne Child or Ne Inferior coming from ESTJ’s or any SJ type, basically from SJ’s, that will give you, the ESTP, options, different ways to explore. Because those people are typically already done those things and because they’ve already done those things, it makes your Se Hero feel more comfortable, which makes your Ni Inferior more comfortable because they’re on an axis with each other, just like the Parent and Child is on axis, the Hero and the Inferiors on axis.

Chase: 12:04 If you haven’t watched my Cognitive Axis video yet or lecture or listened to on the podcast, I recommend you do. So you can understand how that phenomenon works. Anyway, so yeah, Introverted Intuition Inferior, that’s where their insecurity is. Now, ESTP’s childishly want to give people balloons and candy because they want to make other people feel good about themselves, but the ISTP is insecure with how other people feel. To the point where the emotions of others is one of the easiest ways to manipulate the ISTP, because it can be done if you, if you’re feigning feeling bad about yourself, the ISTP will actually try to comfort you with their Se Parent and their Fe Inferior, and then that could actually cause you to give you an advantage to sell them on something or to cause them to influence their decision making in some way.

Chase: 12:51 ESTP’s don’t have that problem. The ESTP way, it’s more different. You want to try to give them options that they think is safe and you can claim, “Oh yeah, I did this experience have worked out for me,” When in reality, that’s not true. Then all of a sudden, they don’t even know what that you just set them down a cliff, you know, ESTP’s are more weak to that. Whereas ISTP’s, that’s not gonna happen, but you have to play the hearts game with, with the ISTP’s you have to, you have to play on their heartstrings to get them. Whereas with ESTP’s it’s more of like, “I experienced this thing and it was a great thing and you should try it.” You play him on that end and that’s kind of how they could be manipulated. Think about how the ways that you’ve been manipulated and your past and that will give you an inkling as to whether or not you’re an ISTP versus an ESTP.

Chase: 13:33 Right? So now let’s talk about the Shadow. So the Shadow, we have Si Nemesis. When the ESTP gets depressed, it gets pretty, it gets pretty nostalgic. Thinking of the past, worried that his childhood would never be better in the future. The future will not be as bright as childhood was or that the experience the ESTP is going to give to their children is not going to be as good as their childhood, etcetera. That’s Si Nemesis, where Te Nemesis is a little bit different. We just talked about that, ISTP’s walk around believing everyone else around them is just stupid until proven otherwise because the ISTP walks around believing that they’re literally the smartest person on the planet and based on that, they have a really hard time engaging with other people, other Ti users especially because they’re like, “Are you sure you’re intelligent?” Because ISTP’s really, really subscribe to the “If you want something done right, do it yourself.”

Chase: 14:27 Now ESTP’s do that too, but not as heavily as ISTP’s do because ISTP’s have to do it on their own, all the time, because they just don’t trust other people to be intelligent enough to do the task right. This is, especially when it comes to doing hair, to a nail, or anything that has something to do with crafting or building or shop work or measuring, etc. Or anything that has that requires precision. Any kind of precision, because the ISTP system, you’re like, “Yeah, no, I’m going to do it. I’m going to figure it out. I’m going to chart that course because I can’t trust you to chart that course.” Whereas the ESTP more like, “Okay, I’m the foreman on the in charge foreman here on the job site and more of a delegation capability.” ESTP’s could do those things, but not as precise and technically not as accurate as the ISTP.

Chase: 15:16 The ISTP is like that super powerful a worker on the workforce. Whereas the ESTP is the foreman running the workers, right? But the ISTP will be like the star worker who has the most efficiency, who has the, the, the, the highest capability in that group, especially if like, you know, they’re doing concrete, but you know, that’s just my opinion. So Te Nemesis, Si Critic, talked about Si Critic, they just think they have the memory of an elephant when in reality they don’t. They do have a pretty good memory. But technically the ESTP’s memory is better because there’s just more there. You know, the ISTP would never believe that, but it’s technically true. ISTP’s, if you’re watching this and you don’t think you’re forgetful, I’m sorry to tell you the truth. You actually are. And you know what? I would encourage your spouse to keep track of how forgetful you are with timestamps and dates and then throw it in your face just to prove you wrong! Because I’m so tired of ISTP’s thinking they can remember everything.

Chase: 16:10 No, no, no, no. You only remember what’s important to your mind. Sorry. Because remember as new data comes in, it’s pushing the old data out and then your mind has to make a decision. Well, I only have 15 frames a second of Introverted Sensing hard drive space available, so, I’m only going to write to my hard drive what’s the most important thing and then everything else is not relevant. “Well then, Mr. CS Joseph, that means that my mind is only remembering the things that are relevant to me and that are important. So why should I care anyway?” All right, that’s fine. Touché I guess, enjoy yourself, but you know, even I remember, you know with Si Inferior, like a hell of a lot more than that and yeah, a lot of things that are maybe not relevant at “that moment” in time, but they may be relevant later.

Chase: 16:52 That’s the difference because STP’s are trying to remember what’s relevant to them at that moment in time, but because moment by moment by moment passes, data is just not as relevant to them anymore, and then their mind is like, “Yeah, I’m not going to hold onto it,” and just let go. So, Si Critic. Extraverted Intuition Trickster, this is another weak point for the ISTP’s. ISTP’s can be sold. ISTP’s are super weak to ENFP sales attacks. ENFP’s come in, they show up, they look so good, so smooth. They got their hair done, they’re wearing the suit and the tie and they look so official. They got lots of letters after their name, you know, and they’re ready to go to battle and influenced the belief system with their Te Child and their Ne Hero, and influence the belief system of the Craftsman.

Chase: 17:37 So the Craftsman finds himself pulling out their wallet and buying the gum off of the ENFP’s shoe. Yeah, that can happen. In fact, a friend of mine whose father is an ISTP, who owns a big company, is actually being completely screwed over by an ENFP right now. Who, actually can’t take a hammer to a nail, doesn’t really understand very much, although I’m not saying ENFP’s can’t be good at construction. I know a few of them that if they apprentice in the construction trade, they could actually be pretty decent contractors. I have met a few of them, but it’s not something I would say is a long-term play for an ENFP. So I don’t recommend it, but it can happen. So, but anyway, back to ISTP’s. They are so unaware of what other people want, so unaware of the potential bad intentions that other people may have for them or intentions of manipulating.

Chase: 18:28 They are so unaware that they are so weak to it and it can be easily taken advantage of by people who have bad intentions. Luckily they have Ti Hero, but Ti Hero can only see so far because they’re not aware of the intentions of others. Those people they can get totally screwed and taken to the bank. ESTP’s not so much, because they have Ne Demon. Ne Demon just doesn’t care about the intentions of other people. To the point that if they get any, any inkling that someone’s trying to put something over on their fists are immediately up and they’re probably punching that person in the face directly because they’re just not going to take that. Because any form of the “what if” or the “voodoo,” “Ooo, this guy might have intentions for me,” they automatically assume they’re negative intentions, automatically. And because of that it’s really hard to take advantage of an ESTP in that way.

Chase: 19:15 They’re just not going to put up with that crap. ISTP’s, however, because they’re so insecure about making that ENFP manipulator feel bad about themselves, that they’re going to have that open mind and then they’re open to attack. Whereas the ESTP is like, “Yeah, no out.” That can be a problem. So, oh, and the ESTP Trickster is the Introverted Feeling, their morality. You’re trying so hard to be moral, but they can’t hard as they try and remember the virtual advice is a Chastity versus, being Chaste versus Nymphomania. You know, ESTP’s have it, one of the reasons why is because of the lack of morals. They are Ethical, so if you wanting the ESTP to behave Morally, just put Moral people around them like, like STJ’s, STJ’s are very moral, they have moral, inner moral compass, compasses, compass-i, I don’t know the plural on that, but they are able to live in that way, put the moral people around them so their Fe Child can absorb the Fi from other people and then become more of themselves and Ne Demon just does not care about the intentions of others.

Chase: 20:19 And ISTP’s really, really don’t care about how they feel. If you try to make them feel something or try to guilt them in that way, they’re just going to get violent with you. Yeah, don’t do that to ISTP’s. ISTP’s also are trying to become the ENFJ, the Mentor. ISTP’s really want to teach you things. They really want to show you things. Now, and they want to do it to like a group of people like running a woodshop and teaching people how to do these different things and teaching multiple people simultaneously new skills and abilities and making these people better. ESTP’s do the same thing with their INFJ Subconscious. The difference is the ESTP’s prefer it to be one on one or this is a one on many relationship. This is a one on one relationship trying to improve others. Remember the number one export of the INFJ is to improve others.

Chase: 21:13 And then the Super Ego is the ENFP, which is basically the Super Ego is what you used to like reset your life or it’s the Human Condition. It can get super charitable. Whereas the ESTP is lighting its life on fire is like, “I’m just going to give everything I own away and start over because why bother keeping all this stuff right?” Or they can get super depraved and are completely underneath a bottle or doing cocaine like snorting cocaine. Like I, I’ve known some ESTP’s with insane, coke habits on a regular basis and probably cocaine is the number one drug of choice amongst the ESTP’s, that, between that and… Yeah, even more so than heroin. Because heroin, Si knows this doesn’t really like heroin. Heroin is more of an Si drug rather than Se drug. Whereas cocaine is very Se oriented in my opinion. So because of that, that can be a problem that he gets super depraved and just their whole life is just going to be completed again because it’s like, “Well, I’m just going to go out with a bang, which means I’m just going to go into the super mad debaucherous mode and just go for it, right?”

Chase: 22:14 Whereas the INFP, the ISTP will just like literally leave everybody and develop a new personal philosophy that doesn’t concern anyone else than lite everyone else on fire and everything that’s ever built for. And it will just self destruct. And like literally everything the ISTP has ever built, it will just bring it crashing down into a huge pile of never. They realize if it never even existed, right? As if they never existed. It’s like total erasure, you know what I mean? So these are the differences between the types, both STP’s, but very different approaches to life, different strengths, different weaknesses. You got it. And obviously different, Four Sides of the Mind for each of them. So with that in mind, if you found this lecture useful, helpful, educational, please subscribe to the channel here on YouTube and on the podcast. That would be dope. And leave a like while you’re at it. If you have any questions or concerns or comments about these two types, ESTP’s and ISTP’s, leave in the comment section and I will answer your questions or see your comments. I read all the comments, so no worries on that. So yeah, I have a lot more of these to shoot. So I’ll see you guys tonight.

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